What Scares Me About Obama in a Debate...

[ChefBeckyD]

You're joking right? Or, perhaps you have not read any of the other political threads here.

I have learned a lot about the religious right from reading my fellow Cheffers' posts.

That's all I have to say about that.

I'm not sure that everyone who is posting as a conservative is necessarily "religious". It's interesting to me that you would assume that though, and categorize everyone the same way.

 

[Shawnna]

I do not like to be called "religious". I am not religious, I am a Christian. There is a difference. I vote my values and I try to live everyday to be more like Christ. Lots of things are done in the name of being "religious". And, as a Christian I do not always agree with them. An exteme example...I do not believe in abortion, but do not think it is right for a "religious" person to kill a doctor just because he performs abortions. A person who does that sort of thing is not acting Christ-like.

So, please do not label us as religious.

 

[susanr613]

Did my post say that everyone on this board or even everyone who has been participating in these political threads is a member of the religious right? No it did not.

My post expressed incredularity that the person I quoted was surprised at how conservative "you guys" are, and in a seperate sentence, reflected on my experiences reading posts from fellow Cheffers. I didn't point to anyone specific or say all Cheffers, now did I?

If you don't consider yourself to be both "religous" and "right (wing)" then there's no need for you to take offense at my post.

 

[Chef Endora]

You're joking right? Or, perhaps you have not read any of the other political threads here.I have learned a lot about the religious right from reading my fellow Cheffers' posts. That's all I have to say about that.

Whoa!* I was raised Methodist & married in that church.* When I go to church, I am going to a wedding or funeral. I can sit ouside in my back yard, or go to Lake Erie and watch the sunset to feel close to God. I have faith and values in my heart and I believe I am a good person. I thought I was pro choice years ago until my DD came home pregnant and her boyfriend was trying to talk her into an abortion. At that time I realized where I stood on the issue. Fast forward to today, my grandson is a fine young man who will turn 21 in Dec. He is an junior at SUNY Oswego. He has been an honor student all along. I value having conversations with him and admire his knowledge. I can't imagine life without him and neither can my DD. Some have forgotton about 9/11. Go to YouTube and watch some of the tributes. The terrorists are just salivating in hope Obama will win. I live in a welfare state. I don't need to live in a welfare country.When I vote, it's in no way partisan. I vote for who I believe will do the best job. I have voted for democrats, but I just have to draw the line here.

 

[janetupnorth]

Ok guys, get off the personal attacks again.We try to discuss politics yet someone always jumps on and makes a dig or subtle attack.Sorry but referring to someone's religion and politics is getting personal.Back to the discussion...people sure like to sabotage the "right" threads.Anyone, someone just mentioned that we sent everything to China and we need to get back to the Clinton economics.HELLO?!?! I know this from PERSONAL experience. Clinton served from 1993 to 2001.
In 1996 in the MIDDLE of the Clinton era my company was forced to ship assembly to Mexico and outsource to China to keep the company alive. I had to go from supervising my union employees to setting up a plant in Mexico in 1997 and 1998 then back in 1999 to my workers again. Luckily the "middle class" union workers understood the dynamics of what was happening and that it wasn't my decision, I just had to do my job.Know the race of all most of my employees at the time? African-American Know the economic status? Middle to lower class. One lived across the street in one of the worse neighborhoods. A lady she knew was shot and thrown in the middle of the street one night while she was at work.Know why Obama refers to the middle class? Because most Americans refuse to call themselves lower class. He is trying to appeal to the vast majority of Americans.Know what scares me? All these "ideas" that he cannot seem to give up and thinks he'll implement. He had no clear plan for foreign policy like McCain did...he could only agree with McCain AFTER McCain spoke. Sorry, but foreign policy helps dictate economics. It's one complicated world.OK, I have to get back to housework...have fun guys.

 

[BethCooks4U]

Whoa!* I was raised Methodist & married in that church.* When I go to church, I am going to a wedding or funeral. I can sit ouside in my back yard, or go to Lake Erie and watch the sunset to feel close to God. I have faith and values in my heart and I believe I am a good person. I thought I was pro choice years ago until my DD came home pregnant and her boyfriend was trying to talk her into an abortion. At that time I realized where I stood on the issue. Fast forward to today, my grandson is a fine young man who will turn 21 in Dec. He is an junior at SUNY Oswego. He has been an honor student all along. I value having conversations with him and admire his knowledge. I can't imagine life without him and neither can my DD. Some have forgotton about 9/11. Go to YouTube and watch some of the tributes. The terrorists are just salivating in hope Obama will win. I live in a welfare state. I don't need to live in a welfare country.When I vote, it's in no way partisan. I vote for who I believe will do the best job. I have voted for democrats, but I just have to draw the line here.

I share the exact same views on abortion that Sarah Palin holds. I do not feel it is EVER right unless the mother would die before the baby became viable. However, I used to vote on the issue and Gore made a statement that decided for me that year that I had to vote for Bush just because of that. Well, guess what? The issue has never been addressed. Bush has been in the White House for 8 years. It's not gonna happen.

Roe v Wade will not be overturned and I now wonder if it would be a good idea anyway. I don't want desperate girls to go to some hack who could kill her or end her chances of ever having a baby later on because it was illegal.

I want there to be more education to prevent pregnancies and promotion of the option to put the baby up for adoption. We should find a way to take the stigma out of giving the baby up. Let's work toward those things and the number of unwanted pregnancies will go down.

I worked in Psych for a while and I had several patients who were there because they had had abortions and now were regretting it. I didn't feel condemnation for them but I did feel it for those that didn't provide counsel for them before they made that fateful decision. Every one of them said they wished they had put the baby up for adoption instead of aborting it.

 

[Kitchen Diva]

Janet- I have so much to share but am out of time... I am glad you were able to get this thread back on track.

 

[jessicafawn]

Will someone please explain to me, the difference in these statements...

If an African-American says, "I'm going to vote for Barack Obama because he's black," that is not a racist statement.

If a white American says, "I'm going to vote for John McCain because he's white," that is a racist statement.

I must have missed something in high school English class.

I agree! I don't consider myself racist but when the topic comes up in conversation, I find that blacks are very racist again whites. And I hate to say it but this happens all the time with Essense Awards, BET (black entertainment television), & Essense Magazine ... I know there are more but I just can't think of them now... There are no "white magazines" or White awards, or white magazines. I had a heated

conversation about this with a friend of mine that is black and he told me, "Well you have MTV, People magazine and the Grammy's "... Then I asked him, "Well do any of those things have "white" anything to them?" He said "no, but it's the same."

I was so irritated. Just maybe, if there wasn't this separation, maybe we'd be getting past the race issue and move on to deal with real issues. GRRRRRR... Sorry... http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g239/jessicafawn/smilies/threadhijack.gif (I guess it's still about something similar).

Now if we're all together in a big room, and the lights go off, will you be able to tell if the person next to you is black or white? No, and it shouldn't matter.

 

[JAE]

I share the exact same views on abortion that Sarah Palin holds. I do not feel it is EVER right unless the mother would die before the baby became viable. However, I used to vote on the issue and Gore made a statement that decided for me that year that I had to vote for Bush just because of that. Well, guess what? The issue has never been addressed. Bush has been in the White House for 8 years. It's not gonna happen.

Roe v Wade will not be overturned and I now wonder if it would be a good idea anyway. I don't want desperate girls to go to some hack who could kill her or end her chances of ever having a baby later on because it was illegal.

I want there to be more education to prevent pregnancies and promotion of the option to put the baby up for adoption. We should find a way to take the stigma out of giving the baby up. Let's work toward those things and the number of unwanted pregnancies will go down.

I worked in Psych for a while and I had several patients who were there because they had had abortions and now were regretting it. I didn't feel condemnation for them but I did feel it for those that didn't provide counsel for them before they made that fateful decision. Every one of them said they wished they had put the baby up for adoption instead of aborting it.

I'm having a hard time with this post. I'm also very tired so my resonse may be lame. But, how can you go from siding with Bush on this issue all the way over to the furthest left of left and vote for Obama when thinking of this issue? I don't think Bush has done nothing. I do believe that Obama will do everything to make every form of killing unborn babies okay, and he will do whatever he can to make sure taxpayers pay for it by allowing our tax money to go to places like Planned Parenthood. Obama will even support not helping a baby who comes out of a botched abortion alive.

I know there are many other issues, but I won't address them in this post to keep it from getting too long.

 

[JAE]

Carry some mace, just to be safe! LOL... MN is a blue state, too!

Michigan is a blue state, too. But most of the state is red. The southeast side of the state, automakers and lots of city, is where the blue comes from.

 

[BethCooks4U]

I'm having a hard time with this post. I'm also very tired so my resonse may be lame. But, how can you go from siding with Bush on this issue all the way over to the furthest left of left and vote for Obama when thinking of this issue? I don't think Bush has done nothing. I do believe that Obama will do everything to make every form of killing unborn babies okay, and he will do whatever he can to make sure taxpayers pay for it by allowing our tax money to go to places like Planned Parenthood. Obama will even support not helping a baby who comes out of a botched abortion alive.

I know there are many other issues, but I won't address them in this post to keep it from getting too long.

That is totally untrue - more Republican spin. There already was a law on the books that protected ALL babies born - including those born alive during abortions. The bill he voted against had other things in it that had nothing to do with this and would not have made any difference.

My point is that no one will even try to overturn Roe v Wade so lets work on educating to prevent the abortions in the first place.

 

[BethCooks4U]

Before Janet chimes in we should probably change the subject back to the title of this thread. Abortion is a heated issue on both sides. I have stated my view and others have theirs. Arguing about our differences doesn't change or help anything.

Peace.

 

[chefmeg]

Barack Obama is a post turtle.

Post turtle?

When you're driving down a country road and you come across a fence post with a turtle balanced on top, that's a post turtle.

You know he didn't get up there by himself, he doesn't belong up there, he doesn't know what to do while he is up there, and you just wonder what kind of dumb ass put him up there in the first place.

I am sooooooo laughing right now I can hardly see to type!

 

[chefmeg]

I missed the debate last night (I had a "date" with my DS!!!) but something tells me I didn't miss much....nothing, and I mean nothing Obama says at this point will endear him to me or mine.
I am having a very hard time understanding how anyone can really like this man when they hear about his past associations with a terrorist like Ayers, when they watch or listen to him stumble over his words in almost every interview he does, when they listen to him never explain what his intentions are for this country to get out of the mess both Democrats and Republicans have gotten us into, AND when he cooses a running mate that cannot even keep up with what they are for or against................

 

[Chef Endora]

Obama never really says HOW he plans to do all these wonderful things he promises. I can only imagine him dressed up like Tinkerbell with his magic wand and fairy dust=empty promises. When pressed on how, he bumbles & dances around it and talks about the other side.

On the subject of healthcare....you DO NOT want the Canadian socialized medicine style of healthcare. My DD and I are nurses in Buffalo and being about 2 miles from Canada, we see alot of Canadian patients coming here. DD had one that would have waited for a procedure in Canada for FIVE months. He came here as a self pay and it's a good thing he did...he has been diagnosed with cancer and is under treatment that he would have
not known he needed for months there. In the meantime, he pays for his free healthcare via his taxes, & pays for his treatment here. The U.S. physician is wondering if she will get paid for her services at all. His procedure was in 2 segments because of involvement, totalling over 5 hours of her time & facility services & supplies. I had a patient tell me he came here to have quadruple heart bypass surgery because he would have to wait 8 months in Canada.

That's not what I'm wanting. I pay 100% ($637 per month) for my health insurance that is for myself & DH. family coverage is more. Know how I do it? I work for it. USA is full of opportunity. More folks have to get off their duffs & work for what they want.

 

[BethCooks4U]

Obama never really says HOW he plans to do all these wonderful things he promises. I can only imagine him dressed up like Tinkerbell with his magic wand and fairy dust=empty promises. When pressed on how, he bumbles & dances around it and talks about the other side.

On the subject of healthcare....you DO NOT want the Canadian socialized medicine style of healthcare. My DD and I are nurses in Buffalo and being about 2 miles from Canada, we see alot of Canadian patients coming here. DD had one that would have waited for a procedure in Canada for FIVE months. He came here as a self pay and it's a good thing he did...he has been diagnosed with cancer and is under treatment that he would have
not known he needed for months there. In the meantime, he pays for his free healthcare via his taxes, & pays for his treatment here. The U.S. physician is wondering if she will get paid for her services at all. His procedure was in 2 segments because of involvement, totalling over 5 hours of her time & facility services & supplies. I had a patient tell me he came here to have quadruple heart bypass surgery because he would have to wait 8 months in Canada.

That's not what I'm wanting. I pay 100% ($637 per month) for my health insurance that is for myself & DH. family coverage is more. Know how I do it? I work for it. USA is full of opportunity. More folks have to get off their duffs & work for what they want.

Obama does have concrete plans for his proposals. Google it. The health plan he offers is not at all after the model in Canada. Google it.

I agree that people need to work but I personally have several family members who have lost jobs because of outsourcing and other cutbacks - one son was told "you are our best employee but we are letting go by seniority". I lost a job in nursing the same way. Then when they go out looking for a new job - anything - they can't get one because it wasn't their field or they're over qualified for the job. What CAN they do? A lot of people do sit and demand help but a lot more WANT to work.

 

[The_Kitchen_Guy]

They can go find a job. Any job. I am underemployed, but I am employed. Do I expect to be underemployed forever? No - it is much easier to find a job when one has a job.It's funny how many of the people who were screaming the loudest about the ineffectiveness of FEMA in New Orleans are the same ones demanding nationalized health care. Be careful what you wish for, because once a federal program is in place, good or bad, it becomes a self-preserving bureaucracy that is nearly impossible to get rid of. (Which is also what really scares me about some of the Wall Street Bail-outs being presented.)

 

[Chef Endora]

Then why won't he articulate it when he is questioned???

I want his answers, to questions when he is asked....too much dancing and too much dependence on others to tell folks what they want to hear.

WHY won't he do the town meetings that John McCain has repeatedly asked for?

From that, I can only assume he knows his vulnerabilites. He needs a controlled environment to feel safe, or a safe environment to feel in control.

JMO

 

[jwpamp]

Chef Endora, perhaps this will help...I have read many untruths in many posts and I think that education is the key to a good decision:


I am including a link to Obama's Plan here:

http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/Obama...tForChange.pdf

This is a 33 page step by step plan to the things he wants to do should he be elected.

I looked for a similar plan on McCain's site, and there is none. He does have individual links that you can click on -- one by one-- to see his ideas.

JohnMcCain.com - McCain-Palin 2008

One thing that struck me as I was perusing the Obama plan was healthcare. Obama wants to make sure that everyone has healthcare, but of their own choosing....this means that if you now have an Employer sponsored plan that they are paying for (or contributing to), you would be able to keep it. You can keep the doctor you work with, the perscription plan you have, the whole kit and kaboodle.

If you do not have insurance, you would be given a choice of options that you could choose from. EVERYONE will have healthcare.

I want to make this one point:

If you were an American right now who didn't have healthcare because you just lost your job and could not afford the Cobra insurance payments, or could not purchase a plan on your own, you would most probably be filing bankruptcy if there was a major health crisis in your life. Bankruptcy. Or worse yet, you would not get the healthcare you needed to keep you alive. This is WRONG.

McCain's plan would give individuals a yearly $2500 tax credit to purchase their own insurance ($5000 for families). Hmmm...under the current deregulated insurance system, I can not even IMAGINE the cost to purchase your own insurance, but I am SURE that it would cost more than $2500 per year!!!

I know that the health insurance that we have now thru my husband's employer cost us $200 per month for our family. With Cobra, it would be $1216 PER MONTH. That is $14,592 a year -- NOT $5000. Where is the extra $9592 coming from? Us. The actual amount could take us down a notch from Middle Class to Lower Class in terms of income.

How about you?

 

[BethCooks4U]

They can go find a job. Any job. I am underemployed, but I am employed. Do I expect to be underemployed forever? No - it is much easier to find a job when one has a job.

It's funny how many of the people who were screaming the loudest about the ineffectiveness of FEMA in New Orleans are the same ones demanding nationalized health care. Be careful what you wish for, because once a federal program is in place, good or bad, it becomes a self-preserving bureaucracy that is nearly impossible to get rid of. (Which is also what really scares me about some of the Wall Street Bail-outs being presented.)

Tell that to my son who applied to every company in the Milwaukee area that he could think of, yes, even McDonalds and WalMart and was told that he was over qualified and would just leave them when he found a better job even though he said he'd sign a contract saying he wouldn't. He would have lost his house and everything except that finally a friend of the family offered him a chance in a small factory for less than half what he made before. He gladly took it and retrained into that job which is not at all something he has interest or skills in but at least he has SOME income. That second job that he NEEDS isn't materalizing either. He was able to refinance the house to a lower payment and he sold what he could and got rid of every expense he could. While unemployed he sold his car and bought an old one with close to 200K miles. oh, and he rents a room in his house out.

Tell that to my son whose small business is failing because companies can't afford his services (even though they cut those charges to the bone) or have outsourced them to larger monopolies and whose second job as a realtor is extremely slow (we all know why that is). Every company that looks at his resume either says he's over qualified and won't even talk to him or if they do give him an interview they tell him that they want entry level after all and won't hire him because, again, he'll leave when things get better. If someone doesn't hire him by December he is out of money to pay basic bills. His house is a small $120K home needing lots of repairs that he can't afford. His wife works full time and has to drive over an hour one way to get there. And yes, he has applied to many, many jobs out of his field.

Yeah, they're such slackers.



The wall street buyouts scare me too. If oversight had been in place and were being used we might not be in this mess. Someone has to be on watch.

 

[Chef Endora]

I will check it out. ("Obama's" health care proposal)

I still want to hear his answers when asked. He does way too much dancing & diverting.

I don't have a perfect job. I am not currently happy where I am. However, I suck it up & go to work and continue to try to better myself so I can get where I want to be. I do not expect a handout. I have had adversities throughout the years including when I had children at home. We managed. We changed our lifestyles as needed and always lived within our means. We were blessed in that we never had MAJOR health issues & the expenses that come with them.

People have come to expect that health insurance benefits are an entitlement that should be provided by an employer. Around here the unions balk about employers wanting to only offer one insurance carrier to choose from. The cost will be lower if only one carrier is provided. No wonder businesses fly out of NY/Erie county. The cost of doing business is cost prohibitive. Still, the unions will not budge. They even cover cosmetic procedures!!!! In the private sector, cosmetic procedures are plan exclusions.

I agree we need a plan. I will check out the specifics of what both are proposing. We DO NOT want Canada's fiasco of healthcare.

But, people need to take responsibility and prioritize their needs. I look around our area which is considered to be depressed (WNY) and wonder WHO are living in these castles? Most people don't buy existing homes..your basic cape cod or 3 bedroom, 1 bath, 2 story colonial. They have huge castles built that have master suites with bathrooms much larger than my living room. Now they are crying because they are worried about foreclosure. I am supposed to foot the bill for them getting in over their head? I think not.
Too many come to expect to have now what it took 20 years for their parents to work for. Too much credit too easy.

And, what about all the lines for the i phones? That's a real statement about our economy. I drive by homes and see most have a huge TV screen.
What's up with that? Yeah, I might like one but it's want vs. need. I see TV fine on my teeny 27 incher.

People have come to expect the govt to just ante up for everything. Someone has to start drawing the line.

 

[Kitchen Diva]

Chef Endora, perhaps this will help...I have read many untruths in many posts and I think that education is the key to a good decision:


I am including a link to Obama's Plan here:

http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/Obama...tForChange.pdf

This is a 33 page step by step plan to the things he wants to do should he be elected.

I looked for a similar plan on McCain's site, and there is none. He does have individual links that you can click on -- one by one-- to see his ideas.

JohnMcCain.com - McCain-Palin 2008

One thing that struck me as I was perusing the Obama plan was healthcare. Obama wants to make sure that everyone has healthcare, but of their own choosing....this means that if you now have an Employer sponsored plan that they are paying for (or contributing to), you would be able to keep it. You can keep the doctor you work with, the perscription plan you have, the whole kit and kaboodle.

If you do not have insurance, you would be given a choice of options that you could choose from. EVERYONE will have healthcare.

I want to make this one point:

If you were an American right now who didn't have healthcare because you just lost your job and could not afford the Cobra insurance payments, or could not purchase a plan on your own, you would most probably be filing bankruptcy if there was a major health crisis in your life. Bankruptcy. Or worse yet, you would not get the healthcare you needed to keep you alive. This is WRONG.
McCain's plan would give individuals a yearly $2500 tax credit to purchase their own insurance ($5000 for families). Hmmm...under the current deregulated insurance system, I can not even IMAGINE the cost to purchase your own insurance, but I am SURE that it would cost more than $2500 per year!!!

I know that the health insurance that we have now thru my husband's employer cost us $200 per month for our family. With Cobra, it would be $1216 PER MONTH. That is $14,592 a year -- NOT $5000. Where is the extra $9592 coming from? Us. The actual amount could take us down a notch from Middle Class to Lower Class in terms of income.

How about you?

There are multiple health insurance companies that you can choose from that are not cobra- why is it that everyone thinks that if they lose their job they either have to go with over priced cobra or nothing? Blue Cross Blue Shield for example has health care plans that start at $50.00 per month. I've seen no fewer than 3 commercials while watching TV each week, that offer health care for families or individuals for about $150.00 per month. There are state and federal health care plans, and then there is the ever popular don't have health care and make monthly payments... People need to stop whining and get off their butts and do some research- there is affordable health care out there...if your car insurance premium is too high, what do you do? You shop around...so shop around until you can find one you afford.

Stop relying on Government to bail you out of every inconvenience or unfair situation in life-

And I think it's great that someone told Obama what he thinks and was nice enough to type it up in one place...that way people don't have to actually do anything to find it- it's just spoon fed to them...

 

[Chef Endora]

There are multiple health insurance companies that you can choose from that are not cobra- why is it that everyone thinks that if they lose their job they either have to go with over priced cobra or nothing? Blue Cross Blue Shield for example has health care plans that start at $50.00 per month.* I've seen no fewer than 3 commercials while watching TV each week, that offer health care for families or individuals for about $150.00 per month.* There are state and federal health care plans, and then there is the ever popular don't have health care and make monthly payments... People need to stop whining and get off their butts and do some research- there is affordable health care out there...if your car insurance premium is too high, what do you do? You shop around...so shop around until you can find one you afford.Stop relying on Government to bail you out of every inconvenience or unfair situation in life- And I think it's great that someone told Obama what he thinks and was nice enough to type it up in one place...that way people don't have to actually do anything to find it- it's just spoon fed to them...

Thank you Kacey!!! I agree. Well said.

I still want to hear Obama answer questions, not just stand up and talk in a safe environment which is all I see him do. It all empty blah, blah, blah. I really have tried to see past that. I'm sorry, I have actually tried to see what is mesmerizing the masses....and I just don't see it.

 

[BethCooks4U]

Thank you Kacey!!! I agree. Well said.

I still want to hear Obama answer questions, not just stand up and talk in a safe environment which is all I see him do. It all empty blah, blah, blah. I really have tried to see past that. I'm sorry, I have actually tried to see what is mesmerizing the masses....and I just don't see it.

It's too bad you didn't listen to the debates. Obama made some very relavent statements. I'm not talking sound bites, I'm talking the full debate.

 

[ChefBeckyD]

What I find most amusing is that the Obama followers started their own thread, and those of us who are NOT liking him have for the most part left their thread alone - let them have it to themselves.

But those same people feel compelled to continue here also with their Obamamania. Many of the posts are still from them.

Hmmm, what does this say to you?

 

[BethCooks4U]

What I find most amusing is that the Obama followers started their own thread, and those of us who are NOT liking him have for the most part left their thread alone - let them have it to themselves.

But those same people feel compelled to continue here also with their Obamamania. Many of the posts are still from them.

Hmmm, what does this say to you?

So we should just be quiet and go away and not comment when things that, to us anyway, are obviously not true?

I find this post insulting and I am shocked that you of all people posted it.

Fine, say what you will - you'll believe what you want to believe even if it is a lie but you don't have to insult the other side. This is almost as bad as the comment that we should leave the country.

 

[jwpamp]

Hey, I was just stating what it would cost us to keep our current health care plan, just a fact....don't shoot the messenger!

Yes there are many health insurance companies out there. They are big business.

You get what you pay for -- typically higher deductibles and less physician choices for a lower amount, and the cost rises with the options you choose. I know, I purchased temporary health care for my post-college grad son before he was able to get a job with benefits.

His insurance was around $100 a month for a $5000 deductible and a $40 co-pay per Dr. visit. He had a $10,000 yearly max on benefits. He also did NOT have any coverage on any pre-existing conditions (ie cancer, heart, etc).

This is nothing like my husband and my current insurance levels, $0 co-pay, $0 deductible, and an unlimited max per year. There in lies the difference in the insurance premiums.

As I said, only stating a fact, so don't read any more into it than that.

 

[janetupnorth]

So we should just be quiet and go away and not comment when things that, to us anyway, are obviously not true?

I find this post insulting and I am shocked that you of all people posted it.

Fine, say what you will - you'll believe what you want to believe even if it is a lie but you don't have to insult the other side. This is almost as bad as the comment that we should leave the country.

Knowing Becky very well, that is NOT what she meant by it. There were NUMEROUS rude attacks at people airing a conservative view over the last 3-4 weeks. You even made comments that people should watch the whole debate not just sound bites. Well, I know some of the people posting watched the WHOLE debate. ...and they got a little more out of it then the list of talking points from the MSM or Obama's campaign.

Most of the conservative side have tried to stay away from the thread expressing liberal viewpoints and let it be. Yet people keep jumping on these threads and it ends up in a personal attack. That was her point.

It wasn't quietly go away. It was have a mutual respect. If a conservative comments on a liberal issue, they are assuming views are close-minded, pushing people away, etc., etc., but if a liberal puts a view on a conservative thread they are just stating fact and expressing truth.

Becky's comment was to express to you to open your eyes to the inconsistency there.

At first I seriously debated the topics with everyone and refrained from anything personal but many keep going there, so I figured I had better things to do...and I was right.

After watching politics for the last few months, all I can say is that I'm further saddened by the state of society today and what we expect in life.

Am I worse off than I was 8 years ago? No... Am I better off financially? Not much but a little. But it wasn't due to the government. It is due to how I CHOOSE to live. I still have more than one TV in my house...I'm happy with a converter box. Do I have TIVO...no? Do I have high speed internet? Yes (...and I did find it humorous that Obama was going to give everyone broadband access...yeah right, do you know how much that costs...but of course people who collect welfare still have their cable.) Anyway, I digress. I am blessed, I have 2 wonderful kids, a roof over my head, although my house is small and my kids share a bedroom and we have 1 bathroom, we are HAPPY! I have books and games and bikes and food on my table. If we didn't have food, I'd sell some video games or old toys or SOMETHING and not buy "stuff".

Our society nowadays is so EXPECTANT of everything. Anyone have a grandmother alive? Ask what life was like during WWI and WWII...ask about the food rations. Ask what life in the US was like during war. Nowadays while people are serving to keep us free, rather than rationing food, we are buying Wii games and eating out at Olive Garden. We are buying designer jeans and new vehicles.

Sorry, no matter WHAT you think, chances are you are way better off than your parents were...and believe me, they worked harder than you think. My dad was smart enough to go to college, but he sacrificed and worked every day for 40 years in a factory for a better life for his kids and so we could have better. ...and he made us WORK for our college education.

Now we want the government to "provide college for everyone"?

Ok, off my soapbox for now.

Look around your house and feel blessed by all you have today.

 

[BethCooks4U]

Believe me I am the most conservative "liberal" you will ever know but I want change and the McCain ticket does not offer me that at all. Conservative and liberal are generalizations. All people voting Democratic are not liberal and all people voting Republican aren't conservative.

One other comment before I go away. I don't know who did and didn't watch the debate but I do know that there are bits and pieces of it out there emphasising each side and cutting off the rest of the story and many comments I read have sounded to me like the writers aren't even trying to hear the other side. How is it rude to say, watch (or better phrased: listen to) the full debate?

Off to my side of the playground. Have fun.

 

[ChefBeckyD]

Knowing Becky very well, that is NOT what she meant by it. There were NUMEROUS rude attacks at people airing a conservative view over the last 3-4 weeks. You even made comments that people should watch the whole debate not just sound bites. Well, I know some of the people posting watched the WHOLE debate. ...and they got a little more out of it then the list of talking points from the MSM or Obama's campaign.

Most of the conservative side have tried to stay away from the thread expressing liberal viewpoints and let it be. Yet people keep jumping on these threads and it ends up in a personal attack. That was her point.

It wasn't quietly go away. It was have a mutual respect. If a conservative comments on a liberal issue, they are assuming views are close-minded, pushing people away, etc., etc., but if a liberal puts a view on a conservative thread they are just stating fact and expressing truth.

Becky's comment was to express to you to open your eyes to the inconsistency there.

At first I seriously debated the topics with everyone and refrained from anything personal but many keep going there, so I figured I had better things to do...and I was right.

After watching politics for the last few months, all I can say is that I'm further saddened by the state of society today and what we expect in life.

Am I worse off than I was 8 years ago? No... Am I better off financially? Not much but a little. But it wasn't due to the government. It is due to how I CHOOSE to live. I still have more than one TV in my house...I'm happy with a converter box. Do I have TIVO...no? Do I have high speed internet? Yes (...and I did find it humorous that Obama was going to give everyone broadband access...yeah right, do you know how much that costs...but of course people who collect welfare still have their cable.) Anyway, I digress. I am blessed, I have 2 wonderful kids, a roof over my head, although my house is small and my kids share a bedroom and we have 1 bathroom, we are HAPPY! I have books and games and bikes and food on my table. If we didn't have food, I'd sell some video games or old toys or SOMETHING and not buy "stuff".

Our society nowadays is so EXPECTANT of everything. Anyone have a grandmother alive? Ask what life was like during WWI and WWII...ask about the food rations. Ask what life in the US was like during war. Nowadays while people are serving to keep us free, rather than rationing food, we are buying Wii games and eating out at Olive Garden. We are buying designer jeans and new vehicles.

Sorry, no matter WHAT you think, chances are you are way better off than your parents were...and believe me, they worked harder than you think. My dad was smart enough to go to college, but he sacrificed and worked every day for 40 years in a factory for a better life for his kids and so we could have better. ...and he made us WORK for our college education.

Now we want the government to "provide college for everyone"?

Ok, off my soapbox for now.

Look around your house and feel blessed by all you have today.

Thanks, Janet. Just logged back on to this!


That is what I was trying to say. For several weeks, those with a liberal viewpoint have been saying that they are offended and insulted by views expressed on threads that are obviously conservative in nature (every one of them had a thread title that announced it). At any time during those weeks, they could have started their own thread and had a place to discuss their views.

So, when I saw that a thread had been started by/for them, I thought "Good! Now they have a place where they can discuss without being offended or feeling defensive." I wondered why a thread hadn't been started earlier for them to air their own views - it would seem only fair to me.

Out of respect, I didn't comment to posts on that thread, because I figured it was their time, and their thread to express their thoughts. I read through many of the posts, but figured that the right thing to do would be to post my thoughts on the "other" thread. When I went to that thread, what I found was the same people, posting almost the same exact posts on both threads. And I wondered how that was fair or respectful? Why start the pro-Obama thread, if what you really want is to continue stirring the pot on the other thread?

I DID watch the whole debate - and I HAVE read Obama's "plan" (pipe dream ideas) and I still feel the exact same way. I am an intelligent, educated, well-read woman, with a strong mind and equally strong beliefs - not an idiot. I'm not sure why you feel it's okay to insult my intelligence (I never go by sound bites when making decisions), but feel insulted just because I point out an inconsistency.

 

[ChefBeckyD]

I have to agree with you, Janet,also, on expectations of people.

We live in a society of entitlement. We think we deserve to have everything - and consider ourselves poor if we can't afford to eat out twice a week, or to get our nails done every two weeks. Even when I was growing up, eating out (period - whether it was fast food, pizza, or a fancy restaurant) was a luxury reserved for birthdays and other celebratory events. We had one television, and we had to compromise about what we watched. But, we weren't allowed to watch often - we had chores, and my Mom thought it was better for us to play outside or read a book.

I had a show the other night with a bunch of women moaning and complaining about how poor they all were. But they all drove their cars to the show, and one of them came from her bi-weekly nail appointment to come to the show. There were at least 2 large screen TV's in the house, and they were all discussing their game systems. Several of them had been to a purse party a week earlier, and a couple of them were wearing Lia Sophia jewelry. Is that poor?

Am I better off today than I was 8, or 10 years ago? In some ways yes, and in some ways no. Financially, things are tighter, but that is because 8 years ago, it was just the 2 of us, and we had 2 full time incomes. Do I wish we were still in that position? No way! We took a cut in pay, but in return, we have a beautiful, healthy 4 yr old. Our insurance is actually better, and way less in premiums than it was 8 years ago.
We have one TV (27 inches - not flat screen!), basic cable, high speed internet, and 2 cell phones. We have 2 cars, plus one classic car. We have a camper (because then we can take affordable vacations), bikes, toys, a garden, and are building an addition to our house(doing this ourselves). We have enough food to eat, we have a rich spiritual life and wonderful family and friends. By world standards - we are rich.

Much of the problem with our economy today is because of greed. One of my best friends is a VP for a large financial planning company - and it is interesting to hear her viewpoint on this. She says that, yes, the economic woes of today can be traced back 10-12 years, and that it all started with the housing market - and banks lending way too much - it's called leverage - and the big banks were on avg. leveraged 76 to 1. Meaning that for every $1 in assets, they had $76 in debt. Free Market (capitalism) will work, but only by corrections. People won't like those corrections, but it's a product of their own greed. On the other hand, if there isn't this bail-out, there will be world-wide consequences so huge that they can only be speculated. If you had listened to McCain when he was talking about this, you would realize that he understood both sides of this, and THAT is why he wanted to suspend the campaign - and deal with this crisis. Obama was more concerned about campaigning, and spouting his "plan" - when he was exhibiting no understanding of what this could mean not just for our country but for the world. Sometimes, we need to look beyond ourselves, and beyond the moment, and make decisions based on the greater good.

 

[jwpamp]

Becky, I think it was a good thing that a pro-Obama thread was started, too. I think that for most people, they know who they will vote for already, and it's good to share your thoughts with those you agree with.

I will play in my yard and you play in yours and everyone is happy. I think it's a good way to be for this subject.

Thanks for your thoughts. Sorry if I re-posted, but I just get a little upset when I see false items posted like they are true. I promise not to intrude again!

 

[chefmeg]

Becky....I could not have stated how I feel about the whole issue of "entitlement" any better....kudos to you!

A few weeks ago, my 8 yo DD was in a whiney mood and because she didn't get to do something her 11 yo brother did, she spouted out "I hate my life". That did not sit well with me~I let her pout for a few minutes and then asked both she and my son to come and sit with me. We had a nice little chat about what is "fair" (something the county holds once a year) and how life is what YOU make of it. I am not tooting my own parenting horn here...rather, I am tooting my parents parenting horn....they NEVER let us believe that there wouldn't be work involved in getting what we NEED to survive. Myself and my 4 brothers and sisters have an amazing work ethic that was shown to us by example~when you work hard, you will get what you need, not necessarily what you want. There is NO WAY that this financial trouble our country is in is one persons fault...I do question Obama's gain from the whole Freddie/Fannie get up. I don't feel that man has ever worked to get what he has now~he is being handled by someone, somewhere and if Amaerica doesn't wake up and smell the coffee, we will be in much more dire straits than we are now.

I see his website and his "plan" as a way for him to communicate with the masses.....but what I want is to HEAR him tell us what his plan is. I can only guess that is why you won't see a 33 page plan on McCain's website~he'll gladly tell you in any interview and would love to talk all of this over with Obama in town hall meetings...but Obama won't have it. WHY? Doesn't that make the liberals wonder or think "hmmm....why won't he talk in that format?" I know I would wonder if the candidate I was interested in wouldn't step up to a challenge like that....this is, after all, the man who wants to be the leader of our nation. Why not go from town to town and let the people he wants to lead ask him questions? HANDLED!!! that's why! It totally creeps me out~it has Manchurian Candidate vibes and I just can't stand the thought that there are good intelligent folks out there that have bought into this. I want to yell fromt he roof tops that change for change sake is not always good and you need to be very careful of voting for that tag line. We all know how change happens in Washington...slowly BUT surely...once it's changed, there is little or no going back.

Enough said on my part...I have my blood pressure up now and am going to drink a glass of wine & go to bed!

 

[Hathery]

Barack Obama is a post turtle.

Post turtle?

When you're driving down a country road and you come across a fence post with a turtle balanced on top, that's a post turtle.

You know he didn't get up there by himself, he doesn't belong up there, he doesn't know what to do while he is up there, and you just wonder what kind of dumb ass put him up there in the first place.

Wow. I mean...wow.

 

[Hathery]

Well I'll comment - and first of all let me just say I have plenty of African American friends - and many I'd have at my supper table over some white people I know...that being said, I live in Eastern NC....large black population here. They are wearing Obama buttons as large as dinner plates. And the same answer from most of them - "I'm voting for him because he is black". Many have never voted before and are clueless on the issues, they just know that they'll keep getting their government hand-outs. Its sad. My McCain/Palin sticker on my car has gotten me more than one nasty look. I dont dare comment on the Obama stickers or buttons, no matter the color of the wearers skin......no telling what would happen.

That being said - I didnt notice Obama having to look at his bracelet for the name of his soldier. I was sewing and must have looked away. Interesting. I also like the fact that CNN, who have admitted they polled many more Dems than Republicans (and admitted so) are declaring Obama the debate winner. Figures.

No different than the many ignorant voters who are voting the Republican ticket because Palin is a woman. It's ignorant to vote for any candidate without understanding their platform.

 

[Hathery]

I missed the debate last night (I had a "date" with my DS!!!) but something tells me I didn't miss much....nothing, and I mean nothing Obama says at this point will endear him to me or mine.
I am having a very hard time understanding how anyone can really like this man when they hear about his past associations with a terrorist like Ayers, when they watch or listen to him stumble over his words in almost every interview he does, when they listen to him never explain what his intentions are for this country to get out of the mess both Democrats and Republicans have gotten us into, AND when he cooses a running mate that cannot even keep up with what they are for or against................

And I have a hard time understanding how anyone can vote for a man who cheated on and left his first wife because she was no longer attractive due to a handicap, but to each their own.

 

[JAE]

"Obama has restored my faith." What? Seriously? Now, that scares me. That was quoted from a woman at an Obama rally in Detroit, today.

 

[DebbieSAChef]

And I have a hard time understanding how anyone can vote for a man who cheated on and left his first wife because she was no longer attractive due to a handicap, but to each their own.

Well that is false information (that he divorced her because of her accident) and here is a quote:

Timberg quotes McCain as saying, "I had changed, she had changed. ... People who have been apart that much change. ... I think she has reason to be bitter." When asked the same question, Shepp responded to Timberg: "The breakup of our marriage was not caused by my accident or Vietnam or any of those things. I don't know that it might not have happened if John had never been gone. I attribute it more to John turning forty and wanting to be twenty-five again than I do to anything else."

After the divorce, Shepp went on to work as the press assistant to soon-to-be First Lady Nancy Reagan. Today, Shepp supports McCain's presidential bid and was recently quoted by the Philadelphia Daily News as saying of her former husband: "He's a good guy. We are still friends. He is the best man for president."

That last quote from the ex-wife shows there is no bitterness between them. So obviously, as I have stated before, McCain and Obama are not godly men. And unlike our pathetic Clinton president who chose to lie about his affair, McCain has been honest and admits his affairs and that he was wrong. Much more respect when someone is honest about his sins. Do I agree with divorce? NO WAY! Am I excusing his sin? NO WAY!

But the points made about Obama, those are pretty hard to cover up.

Debbie

 

[Hathery]

"He wanted to be 25 again?" Yeah, that means he left her for a younger woman. Just because his ex-wife doesn't harbor hostility does not mean he wasn't totally wrong. I could never vote for someone with morals that shady.

What "points" about Obama are you referring to?

 

[ChefBeckyD]

"He wanted to be 25 again?" Yeah, that means he left her for a younger woman. Just because his ex-wife doesn't harbor hostility does not mean he wasn't totally wrong. I could never vote for someone with morals that shady.

What "points" about Obama are you referring to?

LOL - so does that mean you would have voted for Bush vs. Clinton? Bill Clinton is a disgrace to his gender. His morals weren't just shady, they were non-existent. He is the one who touted that personal morals don't effect public service.

Or voted for Hillary, who stayed with her cheating, lying husband for political gain?

I always wonder why, if it's a democrat who cheats/lies/steals - it's forgivable - but if it's a Republican it's completely unforgivable.


Another stellar example of a democratic politician who is REVERED by his party - but he is a cheat, a liar, and quite possibly a murderer - is Ted Kennedy. Just can't figure that one out.

 

[chefsteph07]

"He wanted to be 25 again?" Yeah, that means he left her for a younger woman. Just because his ex-wife doesn't harbor hostility does not mean he wasn't totally wrong. I could never vote for someone with morals that shady.

What "points" about Obama are you referring to?

But yet you can be friends with someone who gives secrets from the CIA?

 

[janetupnorth]

Ok guys, I'm playing Mom again. Knock it off!NO PERSONAL ATTACKS AGAINST ANOTHER MEMBER.Hathery - please stop trying to purposely stir up trouble.
Steph - although you are restating fact from a previous thread, please get rid of that comment.Thanks!

 

[chefsteph07]

I just deleted it, but I thought it was a valid question.

 

[janetupnorth]

I just deleted it, but I thought it was a valid question.

Thank you Steph. I believe it was addressing a stated fact earlier, however it is easily misconstrued as a direct attack on that person. So, thank you for getting rid of it.

 

[Hathery]

Ok guys, I'm playing Mom again. Knock it off!

NO PERSONAL ATTACKS AGAINST ANOTHER MEMBER.

Hathery - please stop trying to purposely stir up trouble.
Steph - although you are restating fact from a previous thread, please get rid of that comment.

Thanks!

What are you talking about, stir up trouble? If it happened, it happened. Why can't we discuss it?

And no, I didn't vote for Bill Clinton because I was too young to vote. I also didn't vote for Hillary in the primary election, because I too believe she stayed with her husband for political gain. I voted for Dennis Kucinich!!

I can't figure it out about Ted Kennedy either. I'm not a fan of that family as a whole.

 

[chefsteph07]

What are you talking about, stir up trouble? If it happened, it happened. Why can't we discuss it?

And no, I didn't vote for Bill Clinton because I was too young to vote. I also didn't vote for Hillary in the primary election, because I too believe she stayed with her husband for political gain. I voted for Dennis Kucinich!!

I can't figure it out about Ted Kennedy either. I'm not a fan of that family as a whole.

OMG, Kucinich is a disgrace and an embarrassment to Cleveland...Ugh...:yuck:

 

[Hathery]

OMG, Kucinich is a disgrace and an embarrassment to Cleveland...Ugh...:yuck:

Why? I'm very fond of him.

 

[tpopescu]

My favorite bumper sticker says "Nobama!"

 

[Kitchen2u]

Chef Endora, perhaps this will help...I have read many untruths in many posts and I think that education is the key to a good decision:


I am including a link to Obama's Plan here:

http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/Obama...tForChange.pdf

This is a 33 page step by step plan to the things he wants to do should he be elected.

I looked for a similar plan on McCain's site, and there is none. He does have individual links that you can click on -- one by one-- to see his ideas.

JohnMcCain.com - McCain-Palin 2008

One thing that struck me as I was perusing the Obama plan was healthcare. Obama wants to make sure that everyone has healthcare, but of their own choosing....this means that if you now have an Employer sponsored plan that they are paying for (or contributing to), you would be able to keep it. You can keep the doctor you work with, the perscription plan you have, the whole kit and kaboodle.

If you do not have insurance, you would be given a choice of options that you could choose from. EVERYONE will have healthcare.

I want to make this one point:

If you were an American right now who didn't have healthcare because you just lost your job and could not afford the Cobra insurance payments, or could not purchase a plan on your own, you would most probably be filing bankruptcy if there was a major health crisis in your life. Bankruptcy. Or worse yet, you would not get the healthcare you needed to keep you alive. This is WRONG.

McCain's plan would give individuals a yearly $2500 tax credit to purchase their own insurance ($5000 for families). Hmmm...under the current deregulated insurance system, I can not even IMAGINE the cost to purchase your own insurance, but I am SURE that it would cost more than $2500 per year!!!

I know that the health insurance that we have now thru my husband's employer cost us $200 per month for our family. With Cobra, it would be $1216 PER MONTH. That is $14,592 a year -- NOT $5000. Where is the extra $9592 coming from? Us. The actual amount could take us down a notch from Middle Class to Lower Class in terms of income.

How about you?

Thank YOU Janice for posting this...I couldn't have said it any better!

 

[JAE]

My least favorite bumper sticker says "Got Hope?" with Obama's name on the side. Please! He is not our hope.

 

[Kitchen Diva]

My least favorite bumper sticker says "Got Hope?" with Obama's name on the side. Please! He is not our hope.

My favorite bumper sticker says: "Come to the Dark Side...we have Cookies!"
...what can I say, I LOVE cookies!

 

[JAE]

Who has cookies? I want some.