Obama Is Not Pro Life and He Wants Taxpayers to Pay for Abortions

[pampchefrhondab]

OMG!! I just got back from work and read this post.. I still don't understaYournd why people KNOWING THE TITLE OF THIS POST.. get on and attack the ones posting.
Hathery.. abortion does effect more than the mom.. it effects that sweet little baby kicking and sucking it's thumb. Yes they suck their thumbs around 6 weeks after conception. It effects the future of the world.. maybe the founder of the cancer cure was just aborted a few minutes ago.. and maybe the founder of the cure of MS was aborted yesterday... the irony would be if you got one of these diseases or your loved one and you supported the abortion of that person. Hathery.. I don't go on the strand that supports Obama.. because anything I would say would not be supported and I would look like an idiot getting on a site from the other side.
I know this really sweet lady at my previous church.(I moved) She was always helping and in the middle of things. Very good Christian. Well we got to work together at Sunday school. She had a blind eye. One day she brought up her disability (eye). So we talked about it. What she said changed my life.. I still cry when I think of her as I am doing now. She said her eye got damaged when she was born.. See, she was aborted by her bio mom.. and she was a botched abortion. Her mom and Doctor in aborting her stuck an instrument in her eye trying to kill her... it went in her eye instead her brain.. they both left her bleeding to die in the trash after being delivered. The person to throw her out swept her up and took her to others to care for her... she was nursed back to health... and her new mom adopted her. She grew up knowing the truth and shared it with me.. It changed my life to personally know someone so wonderful that God saved. No.. anyway you look at it if you follow God's laws..you will support "Thou Shalt Not Kill" There is no fine print on that one.. It is clear.. abortion is wrong. and anyone who condones /supports it is breaking God's law.
I guess I am pro-choice.. I think the baby should choose.. it is the baby's life that we are talking about.. the baby's future.. the baby.

Amen................

 

[AnnieBee]

Ginger, that story is very touching, and I hope thought provoking to others.

But, when it comes to people posting in diagreement about an issue, then to be fair, if I'm reading a thread about a candidate, and there is something there that I think is untrue or I disagree with, I think I have the right to post, even if the thread was "intended" for people of a certain viewpoint! I'm actually glad we've had other comments/beliefs on this thread, because it gives us a chance to explain our position and support for our beliefs.

I personally don't like the mudslinging, or personal attacks on people because of their beliefs, but I don't think this thread has been *too* bad!

Lets be kind and polite to other (even if you don't respect the persons viewpoint).

 

[DebbieSAChef]

OK. I really should not say anything here but I want to ask a question. OF all of you who posted out here as Pro Life, how many adopted children do each of you have then? I figure, if you are going to preach it, you have to own it too. So I am curious.

Well if you really want to know, I have tried several times to adopt babies from young girls who were trying to abort. God intervened several times and after ministering to them, they decided to keep their babies. And by ministering I mean taking them to parenting classes, getting them baby stuff, getting into the Word of God and praying with them and their families. Sometimes the boyfriends stayed other times they did not.
I have many "adopted" kids that come to our church, live in our neighborhood and that we see often at the courts where we minister every Saturday. No they are not legally adopted but I helped many get school uniforms, school supplies, birthday gifts, I know each of their names, I know each of their personalities, I help them with homework, I pray with them, teach them the Word of God and take the place of their neglectful parents. It has done a world of good for many of them. A 12 year old girl just this past Sunday wanted to commit suicide but after we picked her up and brought her to our house she said she was sorry for scaring her grandmother and said she just feels really neglected. She lives in poverty with her grandmother in the courts with 6 other siblings and she was very angry and hurt.
So it doesn't matter if you don't actually legally adopt kids but if you open up your heart and home to kids who are hurting, the Lord gives you many open doors. I have 5 children, working on #6 with my hubby , and we do plan to adopt, and possibly foster as well. We are very young and have plenty of time for that. But as I said we do plenty right now in many kid's lives. I love children and would love to have an orphange here in the USA or wherever the Lord would take my family. My husband and I have always talked about doing missionary work and I know that an orphanage would be a HUGE part of that anywhere we went. In so many countries children are discarded and abused. We give money to missionaries who help children in those situations. So we preach it and we live it ONLY by the grace of GOD!!! He has made us new creations in Christ, our old selves are gone, behold all things are NEW!!!
Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. Matthew 6:19-21

Debbie

 

[merego]

Do you mean this one?

Yes, I had it saved I thought!!!! and I am getting all fired up reading these posts and I am leaving this thread

 

[Hathery]

Ginger, that story is very touching, and I hope thought provoking to others.

But, when it comes to people posting in diagreement about an issue, then to be fair, if I'm reading a thread about a candidate, and there is something there that I think is untrue or I disagree with, I think I have the right to post, even if the thread was "intended" for people of a certain viewpoint! I'm actually glad we've had other comments/beliefs on this thread, because it gives us a chance to explain our position and support for our beliefs.

I personally don't like the mudslinging, or personal attacks on people because of their beliefs, but I don't think this thread has been *too* bad!

Lets be kind and polite to other (even if you don't respect the persons viewpoint).

I agree with you AnnieBee.

And yes, Ginger, that was definitely a touching story. I'm glad that she is alive to tell her story.

 

[Hathery]

Sorry you view anything related to Christianity or morality that way.

I view what you appear to be a logical discussion as an exercise in moral relativism.

People like Debbie who are quoting beliefs in God are also sharing personal experiences that brought them to that belief in God. Ask Debbie where God fit in when she was young and making those decisions, He didn't! She's shared that.

If God is "getting old" to you, I'd ask yourself why you are so bothered by it? Is it really their viewpoint or mention of God or is it something deeper? Only you can answer that.

I'm bothered by it because it's such a cop-out. You don't have to present any sort of opinion or argument logically when you're hiding behind the shield of "God's word." I did that for way too long in my own life, and I realize now that it's just easier to do things that way than having to face reality.

 

[priscilla]

Yes they suck their thumbs around 6 weeks after conception.

It is actually around 12-17 weeks (depending upon source) after conception that thumb sucking can begin.

Robin

 

[gingertannery]

It is actually around 12-17 weeks (depending upon source) after conception that thumb sucking can begin.

Robin

I recently saw a baby in the womb sucking it's tee tiny thumb.. And I remember it being about 6 weeks.. I'll check my info and see if I can find it. The article was about the babies were able to do more than we think at a young age in the womb. I'll try to find that. Another article I just saw said withing the first 3 months.. which would be within 12 weeks. -your minimum#

 

[ChefBeckyD]

I'm bothered by it because it's such a cop-out. You don't have to present any sort of opinion or argument logically when you're hiding behind the shield of "God's word." I did that for way too long in my own life, and I realize now that it's just easier to do things that way than having to face reality.

Hmmm, and how old are you? I am probably at least twice your age....and I've faced MUCH more reality in my life than I'm sure you have, just because I've lived longer. So it just is humorous to me when you say something like "way too long". You are barely an adult!

I don't hide behind God's Word. It's not a cop-out - it's absolute truth. There is much evidence beyond God's Word that it is truth, and that if you live by what the Bible teaches, you have more contentment, peace, and are actually healthier physically and emotionally, and have better family relationships.

I guess I'd like to revisit your words in another 20 years - because right now, they just sound like immaturity talking.

 

[Hathery]

Hmmm, and how old are you? I am probably at least twice your age....and I've faced MUCH more reality in my life than I'm sure you have, just because I've lived longer. So it just is humorous to me when you say something like "way too long". You are barely an adult!

I don't hide behind God's Word. It's not a cop-out - it's absolute truth. There is much evidence beyond God's Word that it is truth, and that if you live by what the Bible teaches, you have more contentment, peace, and are actually healthier physically and emotionally, and have better family relationships.

I guess I'd like to revisit your words in another 20 years - because right now, they just sound like immaturity talking.

I'm 25 next month.

I agree, religion does bring contentment to many people. However, for some it also brings the unfortunate side effect of close-minded thinking and elitism. I believe that Christianity is a wonderful religion (as are most world religions), but too many followers distort the message to one that is entirely not palatable.

 

[Shawnna]

Christianity is not religion...it is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ trying every day to be more like Him. It is harder to live a Christian life than to live a life of sin. To live a Christian life you say no to many things because with a personal relationship with Jesus Christ you know they are wrong. It is much easier to look the other way, go along with the crowd, etc. than it is to stand up for what you believe in.

 

[janetupnorth]

Close-minded...well..."..small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.""Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it."...and I bet I don't have to quote my source for you to know where that is from.Your words also remind me of one of the most famous Bible stories of all... The Fall of Man
1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?" 2 The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.' " 4 "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. 5 "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." Seems to me that your "open-mindedness" and "non-elitism" isn't that, it is sin. Christianity isn't about being close-minded, it is about retreating from the sinful nature and getting back to communion with God as intended. If putting sin and bad things out of your life if close-minded, I'd rather be close-minded any day. Today is but a fleeting moment compared to eternity and I choose to spend it in heaven.

 

[Hathery]

Christianity is not religion...it is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ trying every day to be more like Him. It is harder to live a Christian life than to live a life of sin. To live a Christian life you say no to many things because with a personal relationship with Jesus Christ you know they are wrong. It is much easier to look the other way, go along with the crowd, etc. than it is to stand up for what you believe in.

You can argue a definition if you want, but Christianity IS considered a major world religion. I agree that it is more difficult to live a moral life than it is to look the other way. You CAN, however, live a moral life without being a Christian.

 

[janetupnorth]

You can argue a definition if you want, but Christianity IS considered a major world religion. I agree that it is more difficult to live a moral life than it is to look the other way. You CAN, however, live a moral life without being a Christian.

Yes, but you do not get the same result in the end...

 

[Hathery]

Close-minded...well...

"..small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."

"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it."


...and I bet I don't have to quote my source for you to know where that is from.



Your words also remind me of one of the most famous Bible stories of all...

The Fall of Man
1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?"

2 The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.' "

4 "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. 5 "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."


Seems to me that your "open-mindedness" and "non-elitism" isn't that, it is sin. Christianity isn't about being close-minded, it is about retreating from the sinful nature and getting back to communion with God as intended. If putting sin and bad things out of your life if close-minded, I'd rather be close-minded any day. Today is but a fleeting moment compared to eternity and I choose to spend it in heaven.

Um, yeah. I don't even watch movies that contain nudity or excessive cursing, I don't use the Lord's name in vain, I respect the planet, etc. I am a far more moral person than many who use God's word as a weapon (I'm not referring to anyone on here, FYI) I simply believe that everyone should be allowed to make their own choices, and no one should be forced into a belief system they don't feel comfortable adopting.

 

[Hathery]

Yes, but you do not get the same result in the end...

I've never understood how that can be. You can live the best life possible, but if you don't "believe" you won't be saved. But if someone lives a mediocre life but "believes", they go to heaven. Someone explain that.

 

[janetupnorth]

Um, yeah. I don't even watch movies that contain nudity or excessive cursing, I don't use the Lord's name in vain, I respect the planet, etc. I am a far more moral person than many who use God's word as a weapon (I'm not referring to anyone on here, FYI) I simply believe that everyone should be allowed to make their own choices, and no one should be forced into a belief system they don't feel comfortable adopting.

No one is or can forcing you to believe God's Word...however, you can not deny someone using it or talking about it just because you want to push it away from your life. It is a major part of many people's life.Many of us would be doing you a disservice though if we didn't share with you that those things (being moral) is not going to get you to heaven. After that you can choose what you want to believe or reject...God created us with free will and a choice. He doesn't want a bunch of robots following Him, what kind of worship would that be? But He loved us enough to provide a way to be with Him in heaven. No, Christians aren't perfect, everyone sins, but at least I know I'm forgiven and I know where I am spending eternity. YOU can choose on your own to join me or to keep rejecting Christ.

 

[janetupnorth]

I've never understood how that can be. You can live the best life possible, but if you don't "believe" you won't be saved. But if someone lives a mediocre life but "believes", they go to heaven. Someone explain that.

It won't make sense to you UNLESS you believe the Bible and what God says. We are sinners, imperfect beings. We broke that relationship and communion with God. God in His mercy provided us a way out...He sent His son to die on the cross as forgiveness of our sins. If I believe and accept that gift and that forgiveness I go to heaven...plain and simple.

"Not by works of righteous which we have done, but according to HIS MERCY He saved us." - Titus 3:5

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." - Eph 2:8-9

By being moral all my life, I am trying to earn salvation not accept God's plan. I can boast on a moral life and that I'm better than another Christian, but it is all me...what power do I HAVE to EARN eternal life?

 

[Hathery]

I understand what you're saying. I don't reject Jesus though; I believe very much in what he taught and the ultimate sacrifice he made. I just don't buy all this business about a "personal relationship" and whatnot. I think what's done is done and now we have to just be the best people we can be. I'm honestly not trying to knock anyone's beliefs either, I'm just stating my own.

 

[cookingwith_tara]

Hathery - I'm only asking this question because I think it's relevant to your last post. And I'm only asking out of sincerity. Do you believe you will go to heaven when you die? And if so, what do you base that belief on?

 

[Hathery]

Hathery - I'm only asking this question because I think it's relevant to your last post. And I'm only asking out of sincerity. Do you believe you will go to heaven when you die? And if so, what do you base that belief on?

I don't really believe there is a heaven. And if there is...well, I hope I'd go.

 

[ChefBeckyD]

I understand what you're saying. I don't reject Jesus though; I believe very much in what he taught and the ultimate sacrifice he made. I just don't buy all this business about a "personal relationship" and whatnot. I think what's done is done and now we have to just be the best people we can be. I'm honestly not trying to knock anyone's beliefs either, I'm just stating my own.

You contradict yourself with that statement. The ONLY reason that Jesus made that ultimate sacrifice was out of love, and a desire for you to have that personal relationship with Him. So to say that you don't reject Christ, but you do reject the relationship is a dichotomy.

When I read your posts, I do think of myself about 23 years ago...at a crossroads in my life. I'd been deeply hurt by different people I respected and loved - who called themselves Christians and were leaders in the Church. I was angry and bitter and ready to call it quits with organized religion. I remember telling a friend at that time that I wasn't angry with God so much as I was angry with and ready to give up on the people who said they followed Him. It took a while to reconcile all of that....but the one thing that really sticks with me is that during the darkest time, I took some time alone to try to figure things out, and spent much time praying. I was so angry - but I just kept saying in my anger "I'm not letting go of you God." The story of Jacob wrestling with God was me that weekend. It changed my life.

I'm not sure who hurt you, or how you were hurt - but I'm sure it's there someplace. It comes out in your posts whether you mean for it to or not.
I'm so sorry. Don't give up on God or a personal relationship with Him. It is possible.

 

[BethCooks4U]

Yes, but you do not get the same result in the end...

So does that mean Jews, Hindus, Muslems and other people of faith that are not Christian will not go to heaven? ...and that they are less than you?

 

[cookingwith_tara]

I understand what you're saying. I don't reject Jesus though; I believe very much in what he taught and the ultimate sacrifice he made. I just don't buy all this business about a "personal relationship" and whatnot. I think what's done is done and now we have to just be the best people we can be. I'm honestly not trying to knock anyone's beliefs either, I'm just stating my own.

Hathery, you said you believe in what Jesus taught and the ultimate sacrifice but you don't believe in Heaven. .?? Then what do you think that ultimate sacrifice was for?

 

[cookingwith_tara]

Oh, no. Anyone can get to heaven. Christ died for ALL. You, no matter what religion you are, only have to accept that He died, was burried, and 3 days later rose again. I have Catholic friends who are 'saved' and on their way to heaven. I know of Muslims who have accepted Christ's forgiveness and turned from their ways to be saved.

We're talking alot about 'religion' when salvation is not a religion at all. It's a simple act of receiving a FREE gift with no strings attached. What happens after you're 'saved', after you've accepted Christ as your personal Lord and Savior is between you and Him. This is where that personal relationship comes in to play. My brother was saved a long time ago but after a few years he completely stopped going to church, reading his Bible, etc. Now, who am I to say he was never saved? Only he and the Lord truly know. But if he is and he no longer worships God, for whatever reason, he'll have nothing to lay at Jesus' feet when he gets there BUT he'll still go, if he's saved. I believe you can not loose your salvation but you can loose fellowship with Him.

 

[chefsteph07]

I really don't think that any of us should be questioning each others faith..I think this is drawing a serious line and it could get nasty VERY quickly...
Can we all PLEASE move on from this?

 

[Kitchen Diva]

Oh Kacey! I'm right there with you. I twixed my back badly this weekend getting ready for Rick's party...and it just keeps getting worse. I did something after dinner this evening, when I reached out to water a plant on the bay windowsill. (not up, not down, just out) and now I am in excruciating pain. I'm on my way to take Vicodin right now.....wanted to wait until after the debate before I drugged up.

HIJACK--- I'm so sorry about your back, Becky! I truly hope that the meds you took last night offered some relief. Sadly my pain is nerve pain- I'm on anti-seizure meds right now (no, I don't suffer from seizures) because they are the only alternative to aleviate the pain without popping too many narcotics...

I feel your pain and can relate, and I'm very sorry that you have to go through it....

END HIJACK...

 

[Kitchen Diva]

Well, that is the most flawed statement I've ever read. The Congress has absolutely NO power to overturn Roe V Wade. That can only be overturned by the Supreme Court. Which right now is controlled by judges in favor of Roe v Wade.

Maybe we need a lesson in how our government is set up and works?


The reason that the incoming president is so important is because he will, in all likelihood, be able to appoint 2 new judges, and change the balance of the court. THAT would be the only way to overturn Roe v Wade.

LOL- I've read worse, but that one comes close to the most flawed I've ever read... I'm still laughing- don't know why but that quote made me laugh!

 

[JAE]

HIJACK--- I'm so sorry about your back, Becky! I truly hope that the meds you took last night offered some relief. Sadly my pain is nerve pain- I'm on anti-seizure meds right now (no, I don't suffer from seizures) because they are the only alternative to aleviate the pain without popping too many narcotics...

I feel your pain and can relate, and I'm very sorry that you have to go through it....

END HIJACK...

Hijack? I don't think you're the only hijacking this thread. People are going to get really upset with me if I have to start a new thread with a like title because this one isn't about that any longer!

 

[JAE]

So does that mean Jews, Hindus, Muslems and other people of faith that are not Christian will not go to heaven? ...and that they are less than you?

Did I miss something? Where did anyone say "they are less than you"?

 

[gingertannery]

What I like about this part of the strand is everyone is respecting and questioning each other. And maybe learning from it. I know I am. God did give us laws to live by.. the 10 Commandments. Which is why I feel as I do about abortion so strongly.

 

[Shawnna]

I do not believe that God will ever take away your salvation, but I do believe you can walk away from it. The Bible talks about backsliding all through it...there are scriptures refering to walking away and being 7 times worse than before you were saved, there are scriptures that talk about pigs returning to the mire and wallowing in it, there are scriptures refering to dogs returning to its vomit...these are all scriptures refering to backsliding. The Bible also talks about a "great falling away" in the last days. If you are not on a ladder you cannot fall off of it. I believe that the "falling away" is a reference to Christians who are decieved and walk away from God. The Bible also says that not everyone who says Lord Lord will enter into the kingdom of Heaven. It says that some will say "but I did this or I did that in your name" and Jesus will say "Depart from me ye workers of iniquity for I never knew you". My belief is that this is refering to people who say they are Christians, people who even go to church all the time...they may be great workers in the church...but they have never truly accepted Jesus and when Jesus looks on the "inward man"...the heart...he is not decieved. You can decieve people all day, but God, Jesus and The Holy Spirit are not deceived at all. Jesus also said that noone would come to the Father except through Him. So, not everyone is going to go to Heaven. You must have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. You might ask how anyone can have a relationship with someone who you can't physically see. The answer is the same way you would have a personal relationship with anyone...you talk to him, you listen to him...and he will talk to you...you learn all you can about him. If you don't personally know Jesus Christ, then take some time to study his word. Talk to him and tell him that you want to know if he is real. Ask him to show you. He will. He will meet you in your darkest hour and give you your life back. People fail you, people make mistakes...we are only human...but Jesus will never ever ever fail you.

But, this is not the place for this because this is a thread about Obama's abortion record.

 

[Kitchen Diva]

So does that mean Jews, Hindus, Muslems and other people of faith that are not Christian will not go to heaven? ...and that they are less than you?

No- God is no respector of persons...we are all equal in His sight. However- yes, the bible clearly states...the door is narrow- the road is narrow- You must accept the free gift of Jesus Christ into your heart as Lord and Savior. I have a great mind stretching sermon from the pastor of the church my husband and I started going to that explains this in an insanely deep, and educational way- however I can't figure out how to share the link without having to give you a laundry list of instructions on go here...click on this...then scroll down this far...click on that... go here... etc. etc. If I can figure that out, I'll share it... other wise no one is less than anyone else, and I don't believe anyone said that..

 

[AnnieBee]

Kacey, Kacey, as much as I agree with much of what you say, I don't think that last line was either helpful or necessary... And you know I love you!

 

[chefsteph07]

Again, I implore, please end the religious attacks and questioning...
It will be good for NO ONE.

 

[Kitchen Diva]

Kacey, Kacey, as much as I agree with much of what you say, I don't think that last line was either helpful or necessary... And you know I love you!

I deleted it because I didn't want it misunderstood. There was actually a very loving response to that once questioned, but I don't want to be unnecessary or unhelpful---please forgive.

I heart you too, Annie

 

[AnnieBee]

Hey Kacey, sorry if I misunderstood you - but I'm glad that you could see that if others misunderstood too it could have been taken pretty negatively...

And I would forgive you, but I don't think there was anything to forgive . Thanks for taking my criticism constructively. I was thinking that maybe I should have PM'd you instead of posting it, sorry if I made you feel bad. And I did see your message too.

Have a great evening, I hope your pain is getting less... I'm off to bed, and so glad that it is FRIDAY tomorrow! Woohoo!

 

[Kitchen Diva]

Hey Kacey, sorry if I misunderstood you - but I'm glad that you could see that if others misunderstood too it could have been taken pretty negatively...

And I would forgive you, but I don't think there was anything to forgive . Thanks for taking my criticism constructively. I was thinking that maybe I should have PM'd you instead of posting it, sorry if I made you feel bad. And I did see your message too.

Have a great evening, I hope your pain is getting less... I'm off to bed, and so glad that it is FRIDAY tomorrow! Woohoo!

I was misunderstood, but that is okay. Not a problem at all. You didn't make me feel bad because I didn't mean anything bad or wrong by what I posted, but more as an olive branch to reach out in love, and explain something.

No worries... it's all good. Have a wonderful night, I'm off to take another nerve blocker.

Love ya all!

 

[Hathery]

Hathery, you said you believe in what Jesus taught and the ultimate sacrifice but you don't believe in Heaven. .?? Then what do you think that ultimate sacrifice was for?

I don't believe that Jesus died to "save us" necessarily. I do believe that he died as a result of people rejecting his teachings. I believe his death proved that what is right is not always popular. I believe that he taught of goodness to others; I don't believe that his goal on Earth was to open the gates of heaven for us.

If you'd like to know more about who Jesus is to me (because I am very poor at explaining this), you can read "Jesus Against Christianity" by Jack Nelson-Pallmeyer.

 

[jenne]

I don't believe that Jesus died to "save us" necessarily. I do believe that he died as a result of people rejecting his teachings. I believe his death proved that what is right is not always popular. I believe that he taught of goodness to others; I don't believe that his goal on Earth was to open the gates of heaven for us.

If you'd like to know more about who Jesus is to me (because I am very poor at explaining this), you can read "Jesus Against Christianity" by Jack Nelson-Pallmeyer.

John 3:16-17

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whover belives in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through him might be saved" (emphasis mine)

Pretty clear that he did come to save us from something and to give us eternal life...life everlasting...forever...what we have on this earth isn't it...

 

[jenne]

Again, I implore, please end the religious attacks and questioning...
It will be good for NO ONE.

Nobody is attacking anything...I think this has been a very civilized discussion on what we believe. I can see where it COULD turn ugly, and if it goes there, then it should be stopped...but right now it is simply sharing what we believe, and I think it's been very respectful of others. JMO

 

[janetupnorth]

Nobody is attacking anything...I think this has been a very civilized discussion on what we believe. I can see where it COULD turn ugly, and if it goes there, then it should be stopped...but right now it is simply sharing what we believe, and I think it's been very respectful of others. JMO

Jenne - I agree. Hathery asked a question, we (or me to start) answered. I think it has turned INTO a very civil discussion.

I'm not for stopping civilized discussions just because it MIGHT get ugly if someone forces it.

I won't stop talking about the warm nutty caramel brownie recipe because someone is allergic to nuts and might be offended because they can't eat it.

I think it has been a very good, respectful discussion as on the last couple pages. Questions and answers - no attacks.

 

[chefsteph07]

I think asking someone if they think they are going to go to Heaven based on their beliefs is not right. That's all I'm saying. I didn't need to hear the bit about the brownies, I think I get your point.

 

[Hathery]

John 3:16-17

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whover belives in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through him might be saved" (emphasis mine)

Pretty clear that he did come to save us from something and to give us eternal life...life everlasting...forever...what we have on this earth isn't it...

I take that to mean that the intent of Jesus was to teach us all how to be better to one another. I don't know about eternal life...I can't know, because I haven't died yet. It may or may not exist, but it isn't important to me at this point. Right now I just want to be the best person I can be and make life on Earth good for myself and others.

I don't always believe the Bible was literal in the things it said. For instance the body and blood...in my church growing up we were told that during communion, we were actually eating the body and blood of Christ. Now I can see that I'm not eating anyone's body or blood; it is clearly communion wafers and wine no matter how much I want to believe otherwise. It is evident to me that Jesus was speaking figuratively during the Last Supper, as he used words like "remembrance." Many people believe every word in the Bible is literal, however, and that I can't go with.

 

[Hathery]

I think asking someone if they think they are going to go to Heaven based on their beliefs is not right. That's all I'm saying. I didn't need to hear the bit about the brownies, I think I get your point.

I don't mind answering any questions people have for me about my religious beliefs. I am very interested to hear about the beliefs of others, and I do hope they are interested in mine as well. If this discussion gets at all heated, I won't continue it either (though I have no intention of it getting heated or anything less than civil.)

 

[janetupnorth]

The Bible is definitely not always literal, and Christ tells many parables that he states are stories to represent a point. I grew up being taught that communion was a representation of what Christ did on the cross not his actual body and blood...2000+ years later...yuk! Besides, there's been enough communion that he'd really have to perform a miracle to multiply that. Hathery - all I can say is that you have to search and ask God for yourself what is right. We can show you scripture and what we believe but that decision is all yours. No one will twist your arm to believe as we do. We, in our hearts hope to see you in heaven, but the path and choice is all yours. I know for me personally, I want to know where I'll be and I won't leave it up to a guess when I die. I also try to leave each day for my eternity and my children's eternity. That will sometimes cross my goals with yours but sometimes there will be an eternal goal which supercedes an earthly goal.

 

[Hathery]

The Bible is definitely not always literal, and Christ tells many parables that he states are stories to represent a point.

I grew up being taught that communion was a representation of what Christ did on the cross not his actual body and blood...2000+ years later...yuk! Besides, there's been enough communion that he'd really have to perform a miracle to multiply that.

Hathery - all I can say is that you have to search and ask God for yourself what is right. We can show you scripture and what we believe but that decision is all yours. No one will twist your arm to believe as we do. We, in our hearts hope to see you in heaven, but the path and choice is all yours.

I know for me personally, I want to know where I'll be and I won't leave it up to a guess when I die. I also try to leave each day for my eternity and my children's eternity. That will sometimes cross my goals with yours but sometimes there will be an eternal goal which supercedes an earthly goal.

Hehe, I definitely have to agree with you there!

Thank you all for sharing your thoughts with me; I appreciate your openness and honesty.

 

[Kitchen Diva]

Could you guys please save all this juicy talk for when I'm at home, so I can participate?

...

Have a super day, ladies! I love you all! (yes...ALL of you!)

 

[heather223]

So does that mean Jews, Hindus, Muslems and other people of faith that are not Christian will not go to heaven? ...and that they are less than you?

Beth, thank you for saying this. We shouldn't be knocking each others religions or beliefs. Becuase that is just what they are BELIEFS, how does anyone one of us know if what we believe is right? Has it ever been proven 100% that one religion is what really happened? No. Maybe I am just questioning this because I am taking a class on Ethics and religon, but what I have learned from it so far is that there are many religions and many beliefs. Yes, someone created all this, but who? And yes, before anyone asks I believe in God.

 

[ChefBeckyD]

Beth, thank you for saying this. We shouldn't be knocking each others religions or beliefs. Becuase that is just what they are BELIEFS, how does anyone one of us know if what we believe is right? Has it ever been proven 100% that one religion is what really happened? No. Maybe I am just questioning this because I am taking a class on Ethics and religon, but what I have learned from it so far is that there are many religions and many beliefs. Yes, someone created all this, but who? And yes, before anyone asks I believe in God.

There has been no attacking or knocking each other here on this thread. It has been a very good back and forth discussion. The only people who seem to be offended by it are the ones who just come on to say to stop attacking, etc.....