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Obama is NOT Pro Life and He Wants Taxpayers to Pay for Abortions

JAE

Legacy Member
Jun 3, 2007
4,816
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This article is for anyone who is undecided about who you will vote for in November.

I am not a one issue voter. But the MSM won't report the truth about Obama. I don't pretend to think that people who are already supporting Obama will change their minds about him because of this thread. But, I think people who are still on the fence need to get the whole truth. You may argue with me if you want, but it would be better if you just post some facts or a place for us to go to research them for ourselves.

Obama is not truthful when he says he will promote "abortion reduction" policies. In fact, his policies or just the opposite.

I posted this article on another thread, but here is where I'm breaking the article down. I really want to get the info out there. Obama's campaign is sending out people to speak to "faith communities" in trying to convince them that Obama is middle of the road on abortion. Obama is far, far, far from being pro life. In fact he is as far left of middle as possible on this issue. Have you heard of the "Faith, Family & Values Tour"?

The following article will talk about how Obama is in favor of the "Freedom of Choice Act (FOCA, S.1173). This bill would establish a federal abortion right. NOW (National Organization of Women) even says it will sweep away hundreds of anti abortion laws and policies. NOW is happy about this but at least they are being truthful.

The article talks about how the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops warns against FOCA. Obama isn't just a cosponsor of the bill, he says signing it will be the first thing as president he will do.

FOCA creates the right to an abortion throughout the entire nine months of pregnancy. This includes the right to abort a fully developed child in final weeks for "health" reasons with no checks by any level of the government. FOCA forbids government at any level from not providing benefit (money), services and information. Abortion on demand would become a national entitlement. Our tax dollars at work.

The article goes on to explain that if anyone supports this bill they are not really serious about reducing the number of abortions. If Obama is truly for reducing abortions then why would he say he isn't in favor of continuing federal funding for crisis pregnancy centers (very little federal funding at that)?

Obama, throughout his political career has consistently supported abortion rights. He opposed legislation to protect babies born alive during abortions, and he misrepresents himself on this issue. But, you will never hear this from the media. Even Hillary Clinton voted for a federal Born Alive Infants Protection Act that was pretty much the same as the one Obama voted against in Illinois.

Abortion will be part of Obama's national health-insurance plan. He will sign the FOCA which will invalidate all state and federal policies limiting funding for abortion.

Obama is for the repeal of the Hyde Amendment. The Hyde Amendment has blocked almost all federal funding of abortion. It has to be renewed every year. It will not get renewed with Obama as president. This amendment has saved more than one million Americans from being aborted. (This information is at the top of page 4 of this article.)

Obama wants to allow minors to have abortions w/o permission from parents. FOCA will invalidate any law requiring parental notification law. Obama has voted "no" both times in the U.S Senate that he's had a chance to give parents notification rights (Child Custody Protection Act and Child Interstate Aborion Notification Act).

FOCA will nullify the Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act.

You must read on page 5 of this article where Senator Barbara Boxer (D-CA) spells out the effects of FOCA. It's sickening.

Make sure you also read the very last sentence on page 6. (Page 6 is not long. It is only a partial paragraph.)

Go to National Right to Life to get more info about Obama's record and the record of actual pro life past presidents, including our current pro life president.

Click on the following link to get the details about Obama's "Faith, Family & Values Tour".

Unholy Messaging by Douglas Johnson on National Review Online
 

BethCooks4U

Legend Member
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Jan 21, 2005
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Obama does not claim that he is pro life. He has stated that he wants to work toward reducing the number of abortions.

I have the same personal opinion as Sarah Palin on this issue but Roe v Wade will not be overturned in a McCain administration. The Bush administration was in power for 8 years with a Republican congress for 6 of those years and the subject wasn't even brought up. I would rather see education to prevent abortion than nothing.

Other issues in this particular campaign are more important than the fake issue of abortion. I call it a fake issue because nothing will be done about it once the election is over. It's called demagogery when an issue is brought up that incites the people in an election but won't be addressed after elections.
 

JAE

Legacy Member
Jun 3, 2007
4,816
1
Beth you can go to National Right to Life and find that Reagan, Bush and Bush have all worked to reduce the number of abortions and for tax payers to pay less for them. You are ignoring the facts. There is a lot a president can do, and the past republican presidents have been working for the pro life cause. You are WRONG about what presidents have done and have the power to do on this issue.
 
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V

vwpamperedchef

Guest
The topic of abortion will ALWAYS be there. It isn't going to get fixed or resolved because there are 2 sides to it. Personally I think you Jae are opening a can of worms. It is nothing that can be fixed by fellow CS cheffers........you are igniting a fire here. By calling Beth "wrong" -- this thread is going to turn into a war.

I started a thread earlier today that is a reputable site that allows you to see what the candidates voted for in the past. ITs very informative no matter which candidate you intend to vote for. Check it out.
 

BethCooks4U

Legend Member
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Jan 21, 2005
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Obama does not claim that he is pro life. He has stated that he wants to work toward reducing the number of abortions.

I voted on one issue when it was Bush/Gore because of comments Gore made about abortion.

Too many important issues are on the table this time.

And, just because someone disagrees with your opinion it doesn't mean they are wrong. We have differing opinions. We are both wrong and we are both right - depending on which parts of the arguement we are looking at.
 

ChefLisa

Advanced Member
Jan 19, 2005
894
0
I did not and will not read any posts on this thread. I am tired of seeing this type of thread on this site. I know, everyone writes to just ignore a thread you do not want to read. The title of this thread and I am sure the contents of it will upset people on both sides of the issue.

You can type how you disagree with me, but I will not see it.

JAE, I ask that you please delete it.
 

JAE

Legacy Member
Jun 3, 2007
4,816
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I am absolutely not going to delete this thread. If Greg wants to delete it, I have no control over that. I am doing my part to get truth out there, and yes, I titled it so people would read it.

Beth, I'm not saying that you are wrong about Obama saying he is pro life. I'm saying you are wrong that presidents have no power on the issue of abortion. That is not an opinon. It is fact. Look it up on National Right to Life and you can see what presidents have done on this issue.

Vanessa, I am posting facts. They are all varifiable. I read your thread, and it's great that you started it. Free country for now, and free speech for now. I'm using my freedom. Feel free to put me on ignore and to ignore this thread.
 

janetupnorth

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Jan 26, 2007
15,120
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The topic of abortion will ALWAYS be there. It isn't going to get fixed or resolved because there are 2 sides to it. Personally I think you Jae are opening a can of worms. It is nothing that can be fixed by fellow CS cheffers........you are igniting a fire here. By calling Beth "wrong" -- this thread is going to turn into a war.

I started a thread earlier today that is a reputable site that allows you to see what the candidates voted for in the past. ITs very informative no matter which candidate you intend to vote for. Check it out.

I would respectfully disagree with the assumed reputation. Just because a site "appears" to represent both sides, doesn't mean it does.

I don't believe JAE is opening a can of worms. She is trying to state FACT on an issue. You guys are opening the can by accusing her of inciting something she isn't.

She stated views, asked for facts and gets put down for it.
 

chefsteph07

Legacy Member
Jul 18, 2007
3,248
7
I did not and will not read any posts on this thread. I am tired of seeing this type of thread on this site. I know, everyone writes to just ignore a thread you do not want to read. The title of this thread and I am sure the contents of it will upset people on both sides of the issue.

You can type how you disagree with me, but I will not see it.

JAE, I ask that you please delete it.

I don't think it needs to be deleted at all...as you stated above Lisa, just don't read it, if you are offended by it, don't post on it and don't read it.
I think asking someone to delete a thread they started because you don't agree w/ it (not saying YOU Lisa, but anyone) is censorship and wrong.
 

JAE

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Jun 3, 2007
4,816
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I would respectfully disagree with the assumed reputation. Just because a site "appears" to represent both sides, doesn't mean it does.

I don't believe JAE is opening a can of worms. She is trying to state FACT on an issue. You guys are opening the can by accusing her of inciting something she isn't.

She stated views, asked for facts and gets put down for it.
I might add that I really don't mind being put down. The more you post on this thread the longer it will stay at the top. I have thick skin, and I haven't lied or posted untruths. I have more fear about picking up the phone to make PC calls than posting the hidden truths about this election.
 
V

vwpamperedchef

Guest
Abortion will continue to be a past, present and future issue. There are many other issues right now that IMO take priority over. Economy and war, are my main two.
 

JAE

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Jun 3, 2007
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Vanessa, in case you didn't read my first statements in this thread, I did say that I am not a one issue voter. This is a thread about getting the truth out on one issue. If you'd like, I can start a bunch of threads on all separate issues. This one issue has been very misrepresented in the other threads, totally ignored by the MSM, and ignored by both candidates and the moderators in the debates. I'm choosing to get the truth out there because this does matter to me and to many other people.
 

Jessamary

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Jul 7, 2008
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I've been in a "heated" discussion about this on CS, and don't wish to start again. Just wanted to point out that the MSM...you know, the one that you all think is the devil in newsprint...is the source for a lot of the mud-slinging and facts. It's great how it's the MSM/devil when it doesn't support your side, but is absolute truth when it does.
 

JAE

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Jun 3, 2007
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I've been in a "heated" discussion about this on CS, and don't wish to start again. Just wanted to point out that the MSM...you know, the one that you all think is the devil in newsprint...is the source for a lot of the mud-slinging and facts. It's great how it's the MSM/devil when it doesn't support your side, but is absolute truth when it does.
Not sure what you are trying to say, here. What I have posted in this thread is certainly not from MSM. You will never find this information there.
 

janetupnorth

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Jan 26, 2007
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Not sure what you are trying to say, here. What I have posted in this thread is certainly not from MSM. You will never find this information there.

Me either - I'm not biased, I always dislike the MSM. ;)

The comment doesn't make sense to me at all.
 

babywings76

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Jun 19, 2008
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Abortion will continue to be a past, present and future issue. There are many other issues right now that IMO take priority over. Economy and war, are my main two.

I would like to know how many deaths have resulted from abortions in this past year, compared to how many deaths have come from the war. Something tells me that the abortions will win.

The same people who are anti-war (and always say how many lives have been lost to war, etc) are pro-abortion and I don't get it! (Not saying all democrats, but as a party belief system) And these abortions are happening here, in our own country, our own terf.

Abortion is a HUGE factor. And lets just pretend that McCain doesn't do anything more to fight it, we know that Obama plans to go against all that is currently out there that is trying to reduce it. So is it better to keep things as is, or worse? (Again, just pretending that McCain does nothing, not saying he won't)

I don't trust that Obama knows how to handle finishing the war. I don't think he'll do a good job at wrapping it up and bringing home the troops. I think it'll be a mess anyway and things will get crazy over there from what our withdrawing will look like. The man has zero experience. All he is, is a good speaker. He's very charismatic and comes across very Presidential, but there's no experience. I can't believe everyone is so willing to trust our country with this man.
 

Jessamary

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Jul 7, 2008
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I wasn't talking about this thread specifically, but since you brought it up...

I looked at your cited articles, and a lot of them cites its own organization for where it gets its info. I have a problem with that. I was a reporter and I know that information doesn't generate itself. Either they got their information from a news source or they were sitting in the congressional meetings themselves. That's assuming it's fact, which when a source only cites itself (could be any organization, even the Unholy Democrats for Making you Mad Organziation), it's a big red flag.

But I also see a Time Magazine citation in there, but it supports your point. Is that an exception of that horrible Main-Stream Media?

My point is to use your noodle about information. Any information. Even if it supports your point or mine. You can find a news article to support just about any view. When you see the mud-slinging ads on TV, look at the small print on the bottom. Most times, it's from the NY Times, another MSM outlet.

I could give two poops about all of you attacking each other about this issue, but leave the media out of it. Even if you turned off every TV and radio, didn't read a newspaper and magazine, and got your info only from your own approved Web sites, the information presented is still from the media.
 

pampchefrhondab

Senior Member
Feb 18, 2005
2,777
4
Some interesting reading I received on abortion from Fr. Frank Pavone:

If Obama chooses to neglect the unborn then he will not be representing all the people. Roe vs. Wade excludes them from protection. We should all demand they be included.

Abortion is not a matter of views, but of violence. The law is supposed to protect human life despite the views of those who would destroy it.

The government got too involved in abortion when it claimed to have the authority to deprive some human beings of their right to life. The Declaration of Independence asserts that government exists to secure the rights already bestowed by the Creator. Moreover, when somebody's "choice" destroys somebody else's life, that choice is no longer merely a personal, private matter.

The practice of medicine is regulated by all kinds of laws that protect the lives of patients. An unborn child should be included in this protection.

The "law of the land" can be changed, just as it was changed regarding slavery and segretation. Leadership means seeing the injustices that others miss, and inspiring people to utilize the methods the law permits to make necessary changes.
 
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JAE

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Jun 3, 2007
4,816
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Jessamary, can you really not think of better wording than "two poops"? You were a journalist?

It doesn't matter what way you look into the facts of Obama's record on abortion votes or find what he says. You'll still find facts. Your arguments aren't important or valid IMO because the fact still remains that you can find his votes and you can find his speeches. The importance about MSM is that they don't report it. The sites I'm using are not considered MSM, in case you didn't already know that. I never said I'm not using media.

And again, go ahead and keep arguing with me. It will keep this thread at the top.
 

Jessamary

Member
Jul 7, 2008
350
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I'm pretty sure TIME Magazine is main-stream.
Yes, JAE, poops. You know, everyone poops. Even you. But apparently yours doesn't stink.
 

janetupnorth

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Jan 26, 2007
15,120
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I'm pretty sure TIME Magazine is main-stream.
Yes, JAE, poops. You know, everyone poops. Even you. But apparently yours doesn't stink.

Once again you are going down the same road of personal attacks as before and frankly that DOES stink!
 

pampchefrhondab

Senior Member
Feb 18, 2005
2,777
4
Here is another one from Fr. Frank Pavone:

The evidence should be examined, which is more plentiful than ever, that abortion is destructive of women's health, and listen to the growing voices of those who have been harmed by abortion. That is also why you should examine how the abortion industry, through unregulated and dangerous clinics, continues to deceive and exploit women.

Just last month a local hospital in my town wanted to be involved as a medical advocate for women. They claimed many women were coming into their emergency room after having an abortion. It is very sad.
 
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Jessamary

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Jul 7, 2008
350
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Um, I believe my journalism skills were called into question. If that's not a personal attack, I don't know what is.
 

AnnieBee

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Jan 30, 2008
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I've kept quiet here, and probably should keep quiet, but I just have to post this... And of course, this is all just my opinion. :)

What bugs me, is that when someone has a misscarriage, you'll never hear someone say, well, it wasn't a human, it didn't have it's own "life", why are you so upset. Everyone understands the loss to that woman. But when the baby isn't wanted, then it is no big deal to kill it.

So basically, if a baby is wanted, then it has a life and is valuable. But if it is not wanted, then "life" hasn't started yet, it has no rights, and it is OK to kill. Because if it is not convenient to the mother we should let her get rid of it, because hey, her rights ARE important...

I'd like to see a pro-choice person try to tell a women who has mis-carried that it is no big deal. And if you can't say that a miscarriage is not a loss, then how can you justify aborting other babies, I don't care how early in the pregnancy.

BTW, I am not saying that abortion is not very occasionally justified if continuing the pregnancy will risk the mother's life. I just hate the use of it fro when pregnancy is an inconvenience.

And I am totally for more crisis pregnancy services, more birth control and abstinence teaching, and improved adoption services. I cannot imagine how scary it must be to find out at 15 you're pregnant, and have to tell your parents and deal with the consequences. BUT, being hard doesn't make it OK to choose an option that takes a babies life. Let's try to support and care for the girls (and women) who are facing unplanned pregnancies.
 

JAE

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Jun 3, 2007
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AnnieBee, that is a very nice post and there is not reason you need to keep quiet.
 

chefsteph07

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Jul 18, 2007
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I've kept quiet here, and probably should keep quiet, but I just have to post this... And of course, this is all just my opinion. :)

What bugs me, is that when someone has a misscarriage, you'll never hear someone say, well, it wasn't a human, it didn't have it's own "life", why are you so upset. Everyone understands the loss to that woman. But when the baby isn't wanted, then it is no big deal to kill it.

So basically, if a baby is wanted, then it has a life and is valuable. But if it is not wanted, then "life" hasn't started yet, it has no rights, and it is OK to kill. Because if it is not convenient to the mother we should let her get rid of it, because hey, her rights ARE important...

I'd like to see a pro-choice person try to tell a women who has mis-carried that it is no big deal. And if you can't say that a miscarriage is not a loss, then how can you justify aborting other babies, I don't care how early in the pregnancy.

BTW, I am not saying that abortion is not very occasionally justified if continuing the pregnancy will risk the mother's life. I just hate the use of it fro when pregnancy is an inconvenience.

And I am totally for more crisis pregnancy services, more birth control and abstinence teaching, and improved adoption services. I cannot imagine how scary it must be to find out at 15 you're pregnant, and have to tell your parents and deal with the consequences. BUT, being hard doesn't make it OK to choose an option that takes a babies life. Let's try to support and care for the girls (and women) who are facing unplanned pregnancies.

Good point, Annie, very true...
I so wish we would get off the abortion issue...we could go round and round on this and nothing good will come of it.
 

JAE

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Jun 3, 2007
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Good point, Annie, very true...
I so wish we would get off the abortion issue...we could go round and round on this and nothing good will come of it.
I really think the truth needs to be out there. There is nothing in my original post that isn't verifiable, yet we don't hear about it. And, I keep hearing people say that the republican presidents haven't done anything to help the prolife cause. I just want to get the truth out there that they have done good things and haven't ignored the pro life cause.

Again, I realize it's best not to vote on one issue. But everyone deserves to know the truth, but they don't always take the time to look it up. They just believe what they hear. What is being heard is not always true, or nothing at all is being heard because nothing is being said. So, I'm saying it.
 

heather223

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Jul 19, 2007
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I also usually keep quiet and I am not siding with one or the other on this... all I have to say is you need to really look at the information that is presented. NO MATTER WHAT THE SOURCE IS! I just took a class on this for college and the one thing I learned is you need to read everything and think to yourself, what is the information trying to get me to believe? Every article will be biased and is ultimately one sided. Try it- you will see what I mean. I didn't believe it until I started looking at information I was presented this way.
 

JAE

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Jun 3, 2007
4,816
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I also usually keep quiet and I am not siding with one or the other on this... all I have to say is you need to really look at the information that is presented. NO MATTER WHAT THE SOURCE IS! I just took a class on this for college and the one thing I learned is you need to read everything and think to yourself, what is the information trying to get me to believe? Every article will be biased and is ultimately one sided. Try it- you will see what I mean. I didn't believe it until I started looking at information I was presented this way.
I totally agree with you. I posted this thread because of my bias.

BUT/AND-Anyone can go and look up the amendments and senator's votes and speeches. It doesn't matter if the NY Times or Time Magazine or National Right to Life reports it. Facts are facts.
 

heather223

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Jul 19, 2007
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I totally agree with you. I posted this thread because of my bias.

BUT/AND-Anyone can go and look up the amendments and senator's votes and speeches. It doesn't matter if the NY Times or Time Magazine or National Right to Life reports it. Facts are facts.

JAE- I wasn't specifically pointing fingers at you, I was talking in general terms about everything from elections to reading an article about obesity. Bias is everywhere, even in places that you least expect it such as NY Times or Time Magazine. Basically, we just need to be aware. And honestly, I don't think we are going to get honest answers out of either side of this election. It is dirty politics at it's best.
 

gingertannery

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Apr 7, 2008
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Jessamary.. you are a pot stirrer. I have seen this on many strands.. Your opinion has no leverage as far as I am concerned...

Now Jae.. that you so much for starting this thread.. you see.. I vote only for people who are pro-life.. that is my bottom line. Thank you again for reminding me why I am voting for McCain/Palin..... and there might be others who also vote like me.. So this "ONE ISSUE" might be of critical importance to others like me. I always have to say.. WWJD That is What Would Jesus Do.. for those that don't know.. And I'm sure he would want me to vote for all his little children being cut up and sucked out of their dear mothers. Do you know some of the mothers feel the baby jump and whince with pain..
I choose to vote for our most priceless possessions... our unborn babies.. Thank you soooo much Rae for starting this strand!! When I am called to my maker.. I want to be able to say I did all I could do to stop this holocaust.
Past presidents HAVE tried to overturn Roe vs Wade. .it is very hard to do
Aren't you glad your momma didn't abort you??????????
 

gingertannery

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And Anniebee.. That was a sweet and caring post. Please do not appologize because you care. I wish more people felt like you did. And sharing your opinion was great.. you have some good points to think about. I also have a hard time seeing people talk out of both sides of their mouth.. miscarriage vs. abortion. People have to look at abortion differently.. or they would have to admit the autrausity they are committing.
It makes it easier to swallow.
 

heather223

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I am just thinking out loud here... I know I said I wasn't going to share my view on this but I WANT to see the views on this...

Example: A woman who is raped or molested and gets pregnant- Should she have the right to abort the baby?
 

janetupnorth

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Jan 26, 2007
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This is MY opinion...

I don't think that one crime rape, should not be followed with another, murder. (Yes I believe it is a crime - legal or not, it is murder to me)

I KNOW the woman did not ask to be raped or molested. I KNOW sometimes it causes great mental anguish. However, we cannot use that as an EXCUSE for abortion. For all the effort we put into saying the mom needs us and fighting for her "right" to abort in that case, why don't we use as much effort to punish the offended...maybe if we had some male castration as a punishment we'd see some results. Oh, and no viagra prescriptions for those guys when they are older either...and no TV in prison...and...well, you get my point...
 

crystalscookingnow

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Jan 17, 2006
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This is MY opinion...

I don't think that one crime rape, should not be followed with another, murder. (Yes I believe it is a crime - legal or not, it is murder to me)

I KNOW the woman did not ask to be raped or molested. I KNOW sometimes it causes great mental anguish. However, we cannot use that as an EXCUSE for abortion. For all the effort we put into saying the mom needs us and fighting for her "right" to abort in that case, why don't we use as much effort to punish the offended...maybe if we had some male castration as a punishment we'd see some results. Oh, and no viagra prescriptions for those guys when they are older either...and no TV in prison...and...well, you get my point...

Janet - we share the same opinion! :) I won't go down the road of the privileges of the prisoners. It's disgusting. My step-dad is a warden in one of our state prisons. He also leads the prison-ministry in several of the prisons around us. It makes me so angry to know these criminals lead a better life in prison than most of us hard-working, law-obeying citizens. Many times, prisoners have told my step-dad that they don't want to get out & that they'll be back because it's easier in the system.
 

AnnieBee

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You really want to know?!!

IMHO, I say no. As much I see the horror of the situation for that woman, it doesn't change the fact that we are still talking about a human baby's life. If you believe that an unborn baby has both a life and rights, it makes no difference *to the baby* how it was conceived. It is not it's fault if it was a result of a rape, so why should it suddenly change the baby's right to life?

And I do understand that the women is in a horrific position, and that this was not her choice or carelessness or ignorance that caused this situation. But I still don't say it justifies the murder (and yes, I consider it that strongly) of an innocent child.

Another way to look at the whole overall issue. Would you kill a 5 minute old baby? A baby 5 mins before delivery? 1 day before that? 1 day before that day? 1 day before that day? 1 day before that day? 1 day before that day?

You can see where I'm going with this... At what day is this baby (any baby) suddenly not a baby? IMO, this child has rights at conception. This child has life and the potential to a future. Who are we to stop this because of another persons actions and what is easier/better for them.

And yes, I know there are many who will disagree with me, but Steph did ask the question, so here is my answer!
 

gingertannery

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I agree.. every life is sacred.. and at the moment of conception... What would we think if a dog was trying to abort her puppies... we would think the dog was loco.. we even think it is abnormal if they don't take good care of newborn puppies. it is not a natural thing to abort.. and even against God's law. Thou shalt not kill... (I didn't see any fine print that said "unless it is an unwanted wee one)
Thank you again for sharing Anniebee. :)
 

krzymomof4

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Jun 27, 2005
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I really don't want to get involved in a heated back and forth, but I was once told that besides basing your voting decisions on moral ethics, it all comes down to lining your wallet. Yes we are in bad times in a lot of areas, but I myself don't want to answer to my being swayed by financial decisions when I vote rather than follow what I feel to be more important issues. Things probably won't change because of my vote, but I can stand before God with my conscience clear.
Just my lowly 2 cents.
 

JAE

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Jun 3, 2007
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I really don't want to get involved in a heated back and forth, but I was once told that besides basing your voting decisions on moral ethics, it all comes down to lining your wallet. Yes we are in bad times in a lot of areas, but I myself don't want to answer to my being swayed by financial decisions when I vote rather than follow what I feel to be more important issues. Things probably won't change because of my vote, but I can stand before God with my conscience clear.
Just my lowly 2 cents.
Your 2 cents are not lowly. :)
 
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