Politics What I Like About Obama: A Balanced Perspective on the Presidential Candidate

[BethCooks4U]

Alright. I guess I'm the mom over here.

I think both sides are being too sensitive and taking opinion and defensive statements as bashing. The original thread was an announcement that McCain picked Palin. I would expect that opinions from both sides would have been welcome. Obviously I was wrong. Then the two scared of Obama threads started and people who aren't scared of him started posting to say wait a minute, this isn't so or that's not true but we were shut down - told to go away.

What happened to the open format this forum had? I never heard before that if we don't agree we should just start our own thread.

This thread was started because I wanted a place for people who weren't McCain supporters (I've edited this sentence several times before posting to stay nice ) to have a place to give their opinions.

I don't have a problem if people who are not for Obama post on this thread but I do ask that we continue to state facts or opinions (stating which it is) and that we refrain from making it personal.

 

[janetupnorth]

Actually I was being Mom in the post before you. I was trying to stay stick with the facts, know your history and knock off the personal attacks.

Opinions on that original thread WERE of both sides fairly for awhile until personal attacks got started.

That's why it was shut down.

The others were spawned off of that and there was plenty of time to post opposing threads or views. Instead a few select decided to jump on those threads and stir them up.

So back to your regularly scheduled topic at hand.

I probably won't post here because I can't think of anything I like about Obama today except that he is a human being created by God.

 

[chefsteph07]

If it is supposed to be about what you like about Obama, how come all the anti abortion statements have been made? Obviously, he supports abortion, but yet it was taken over by ANTI abortion. So, does that mean that you all who have posted regarding this are STILL voting for him, regardless of the fact that he supports it, thus making you all kind of (and please, I don't want to say this word because I know it sounds personally attacking) "hypocritical", (but I can't think of another word for it) for voting against your beliefs, or are you conservative coming over here stating your views? I am very confused.

And in that same token, I guess maybe "I" am hypocrital as well, voting for McCain when I know he is a very staunch supporter against abortion. And, I have stated this many times, the only reason it's not such an issue for me is that I truly believe it will NOT be overturned, so I can feel safe knowing that I am going to vote for him and that will still be legal.

 

[jwpamp]

Is that the only issue you are basing your vote on? Not the fiscal state of the country, the war in Iraq, the deregulation of major financial institutions, healthcare, etc....just on the abortion issue? If so, vote for McCain.

Get over the abortion issue and move on. Please -- there is more to discuss.

 

[chefsteph07]

Is that the only issue you are basing your vote on? Not the fiscal state of the country, the war in Iraq, the deregulation of major financial institutions, healthcare, etc....just on the abortion issue? If so, vote for McCain.

Get over the abortion issue and move on. Please -- there is more to discuss.

No, it certainly is not, but it seems as though a good majority of this thread has been ABOUT it, so I was just asking everyone's views who were posting about it.
It's certainly no issue for ME, as I already stated. But alot of energy has been focused on it so it must be a big thing for them as well.

 

[ChefBeckyD]

No, it certainly is not, but it seems as though a good majority of this thread has been ABOUT it, so I was just asking everyone's views who were posting about it.
It's certainly no issue for ME, as I already stated. But alot of energy has been focused on it so it must be a big thing for them as well.

I don't think she actually read your post Steph - if she had, she wouldn't have posted what she did.

 

[chefsteph07]

I don't think she actually read your post Steph - if she had, she wouldn't have posted what she did.

That is why I am a bit confused...
I thought I was articulating myself so well up till now...

 

[BethCooks4U]

I agree we should move on from the abortion issue but I also feel that it was a good discussion and see no reason that it shouldn't be included.

We all have strong opinions about this and other issues. What confuses me is why it matters to anyone that the conversation was on that subject or any other particular point anyway. Abortion is one of the issues after all.

I think the basic point has been made. We don't like abortion and our candidate, while he is pro-choice (that does not translate to pro-abortion), has adressed the issue with the view that we need to limit them to as few as possible. Everyone knows that they will not be eradicated no matter who is in the White House.


Okay, so on to other topics.

 

[janetupnorth]

I agree we should move on from the abortion issue but I also feel that it was a good discussion and see no reason that it shouldn't be included.

We all have strong opinions about this and other issues. What confuses me is why it matters to anyone that the conversation was on that subject or any other particular point anyway. Abortion is one of the issues after all.

I think the basic point has been made. We don't like abortion and our candidate, while he is pro-choice (that does not translate to pro-abortion), has adressed the issue with the view that we need to limit them to as few as possible. Everyone knows that they will not be eradicated no matter who is in the White House.


Okay, so on to other topics.

I believe that is because so much heat had already been given to that issue and people assuming that people were voting single-issue or based JUST on that issue.

Frankly, I'm not happy with either candidate but picking the much lesser of two evils in my mind.

 

[priscilla]

I keep seeing statements that Roe v Wade will not be overturned. The next president could be appointing several justices to the Supreme Court. There are challenges to Roe v Wade waiting for a change in the make up of the court that could favor overturning the decision and returning the decision to the states. Then it will be decided on a state by state basis. So, do not delude yourself into thinking the ruling is here to stay, as that may not be true.Robin

 

[chefsteph07]

I guess I just dont really see it happening. I"m not trying to delude myself, but I don't think it's going to. Let's just say I would be SHOCKED if it did.

 

[janetupnorth]

To overturn a Supreme Court Decision (note: not a law passed by Congress) would take A LOT. There has to be a case headed all the way up to the Supreme Court first and second the Supreme Court would have to hear it. There have already been many cases since Roe v. Wade heard by the court.There have been SOME laws against partial birth abortions.Regardless of the side you are on, take a step back and look at society today vs. 100 years ago. We might have gained rights and freedoms, but we have lost a ton of morality (...and that isn't referring to abortion, that is referring to work ethics, etc.).

 

[Jennie4PC]

He is talking about raising taxes on corporate America, not the middle class. He is proposing tax cuts for 95% of the population, (making less than $250,000). When Warren Buffet came out and said that he doesn't pay enough taxes that says something to me. He said that he found out that his employees are paying more than he is and he doesn't think it is right, and either do I.



I know this is a what I like about Obama thread but I have a question for you all about the trickle effect. I havent yet decided who I am voting for so this is a honest question. Obama says he wants to give the middle class tax breaks but he wants raise tax on corporate America (businesses). Wont that affect us when the businesses have to pay more taxes then they will increase items like our food and out items that our a necessity. Maybe I am being niave in all this.

 

[BethCooks4U]

He is talking about raising taxes on corporate America, not the middle class. He is proposing tax cuts for 95% of the population, (making less than $250,000). When Warren Buffet came out and said that he doesn't pay enough taxes that says something to me. He said that he found out that his employees are paying more than he is and he doesn't think it is right, and either do I.



I know this is a what I like about Obama thread but I have a question for you all about the trickle effect. I havent yet decided who I am voting for so this is a honest question. Obama says he wants to give the middle class tax breaks but he wants raise tax on corporate America (businesses). Wont that affect us when the businesses have to pay more taxes then they will increase items like our food and out items that our a necessity. Maybe I am being niave in all this.

There is a lot that goes into the formula of what tax companies ACTUALLY pay. In my opinion, giving middle class tax breaks will give us more money to spend to buy the products of those companies and they will make more money. Conversely, if we continue to make less and have less jobs we won't spend money and it won't matter how many breaks the companies get - look at the situation we are in now on Wall Street after 8 years of trickle down economics. Wall Street is failing because people can't pay their debts. Yes, people spend TOO much, but if we can't meet our basic obligations...

 

[janetupnorth]

Personally, I think there is something wrong with the core of society. Wall Street is failing because people can't pay their debts. Granted, some are legitimate but I wonder if you scrutinized their personal finances and dug, how many of those people:1. Own multiple TVs
2. Have cable or high-speed internet for personal rather than work reasons.
3. Eat out of the house numerous times a week.
4. Own multiple cars on which they make a payment.
5. Have new clothes.
6. Have video games.
7. See movies multiple times a year.
8. Go on major vacations.I could make my list longer, but you get the point. Our newer generations (mine included) have messed up their priorities in life. We spend, spend, spend instead of work and save. Once in the rut, hard to get out!

 

[Hathery]

Wait a minute - back up about a week BEFORE you showed up. It started out as what McCain picks Palin and there was so much about what "scared people about Palin" that the What scares me about Obama was started because someone asked a direct question about it.

Read all the way back before you make those assumptions.

The conservative side was very polite and we had GREAT back and forth discussions on the issues until you and others started the attacks.

I remember my first conversation with you, you made some very strong assumptions and accusations about me.

So don't bash the conservative side AGAIN. Stick with discussing the main point at hand.

Yes, you and I had a flare-up, but I thought we had cleared that up. I don't believe I've done any bashing since then?

 

[janetupnorth]

Yes, you and I had a flare-up, but I thought we had cleared that up. I don't believe I've done any bashing since then?

Not to me, we are clear, but there has been tense moments with others. The point wasn't that incident, but the fact that assumptions were being made then and now based on your limited exposure to events and not going back.You made specific comments about the What I dislike about threads without referring to the source thread of McCain picks Palin which spawned those threads.That was the point. Don't comment about the spawned threads without referring to the original source. That was passing judgment on those.Anyway, if we all stick to the issues at hand and stop making these assumptions and "jumps", we won't have anything like this happen.Back to the economy and lapse of work ethics...

Spoiler

For a brief moment, I was temped to use Clinton's line of It's the economy stupid, but then realized SOMEONE out there would take that wrong vs. a democratic joke. But did you know Clinton's other phrase was "Change vs. more of the same"...interesting how that is used again.

 

[Hathery]

I guess I just dont really see it happening. I"m not trying to delude myself, but I don't think it's going to. Let's just say I would be SHOCKED if it did.

I agree with you there. If it wasn't overturned during the Bush years, I don't see how it will be overturned.

Partial-brith abortions definitely need to be looked into further. If the baby is large enough to survive outside of the womb, there is no reason to abort the fetus when you basically give birth to the child during the abortion anyway. May as well just go through with it and give it up to a family who can care for it. That's the one part of the abortion debate I'm pro-life on!

 

[Hathery]

Not to me, we are clear, but there has been tense moments with others. The point wasn't that incident, but the fact that assumptions were being made then and now based on your limited exposure to events and not going back.

You made specific comments about the What I dislike about threads without referring to the source thread of McCain picks Palin which spawned those threads.

That was the point. Don't comment about the spawned threads without referring to the original source. That was passing judgment on those.

Anyway, if we all stick to the issues at hand and stop making these assumptions and "jumps", we won't have anything like this happen.

Back to the economy and lapse of work ethics...

Spoiler

For a brief moment, I was temped to use Clinton's line of It's the economy stupid, but then realized SOMEONE out there would take that wrong vs. a democratic joke. But did you know Clinton's other phrase was "Change vs. more of the same"...interesting how that is used again.

Sorry, I didn't know those other threads existed. I don't generally check each thread to see if they're related to an outdated thread on a previous page of topics. I'd be here all day if I did that.

 

[janetupnorth]

Sorry, I didn't know those other threads existed. I don't generally check each thread to see if they're related to an outdated thread on a previous page of topics. I'd be here all day if I did that.

No problem, that was the point someone made to you initially though. It was to please be respectful and watch making comments like that when you were brand new and didn't know the tone, the people or even the past week of debate.

It is like jumping on the jury in the middle of a trial...it doesn't work 100% if you don't have the background.

People are generally very forgiving here.

I was just cautioning to watch those things if you don't know the history.

 

[Hathery]

I like to think my tone has been a lot more amicable than some of the people I've encountered

 

[ChefBeckyD]

Personally, I think there is something wrong with the core of society. Wall Street is failing because people can't pay their debts. Granted, some are legitimate but I wonder if you scrutinized their personal finances and dug, how many of those people:

1. Own multiple TVs
2. Have cable or high-speed internet for personal rather than work reasons.
3. Eat out of the house numerous times a week.
4. Own multiple cars on which they make a payment.
5. Have new clothes.
6. Have video games.
7. See movies multiple times a year.
8. Go on major vacations.

I could make my list longer, but you get the point. Our newer generations (mine included) have messed up their priorities in life. We spend, spend, spend instead of work and save. Once in the rut, hard to get out!

I posted this on another thread - but Wall Street is failing because Wall Street got greedy (and was given the go-ahead by the Clinton Administration - NOT the Bush Administration) and started lending too much money to too many people who couldn't afford the loans they were taking. That's why the failures started first with sub-prime loans. The big banks had leveraged their assets on average 76 to 1. Meaning that for every $1 in assets, they had $76 in debt. You don't have to be an economist to know that those odds are dangerous, and a disaster waiting to happen.

Again, we live in a society that feels entitled. We have no idea what it means to live within our means. We have to have the best, the biggest, the newest, and the most expensive. My BIL works for the Township, and he has said that it's the BIG houses on private lakes and expensive sub-divisions that are having their water turned off, or being re-possessed for not paying taxes, etc....He often has to walk into these 3000+ sq. ft. houses, and says that they are full of electronics, the latest in all sorts of gadgets, and furniture, etc....they have boats, and other recreational vehicles....but they can't afford to pay their $75 water bill, or their $1000 property tax. I think that much of what we consider necessity in life is not so much need as want.

No one NEEDS a Wii or Playstation. No one NEEDS recreational vehicles. No one NEEDS a wide-screen TV, we don't even need to eat out, or have our nails done, or have new clothes every six months......and I'm not saying those things are bad and people shouldn't have them. I just think that they should come from saving and then buying them, not over-extending even more on credit that is already stretched to a breaking point. Or ignoring important debt to focus on getting what we want.

If DH and I both lost our jobs tomorrow - we would be okay. Our home is mostly payed for, and we own all 3 of our vehicles. One of those could be sold for enough for us to live comfortable for a long time. We have worked hard to make sure that we are fiscally responsible and not drowning in debt or owned by a bank.

I hate to think that now, I will be paying for all of those people who didn't manage their money well, or overextended and spent when they shouldn't have. Those of us who have been careful are going to end up footing the bill for those who haven't. That really bothers me.

 

[peichef]

Edited to say: Your article is from 1999 from a Canadian author. Lots have been done in science in 9 years, and the Candian FDA (or whatever they call it) is very different than the USA FDA. The author of the article lives in Alberta somewhere. Look up facts on Plan B, if you want to actually know the facts.

The Canadian equivalent of the FDA is actually not that different that the FDA in the USA, except that it tends to be more stringent & cautious than the FDA before approving drugs for sale in Canada.

That said, it is an article from about a decade ago (& I didn't read the article). I'm commenting only b/c I felt a little offended at the way the article was discounted b/c it wasn't American. I'm sure that wasn't the intent of the posted message, but it seemed to assume that b/c it's from Canada it must be backwards or lacking in accuracy.

Again, probably just me be hyper-sensitive. Please, don't shoot

 

[chefsteph07]

I posted this on another thread - but Wall Street is failing because Wall Street got greedy (and was given the go-ahead by the Clinton Administration - NOT the Bush Administration) and started lending too much money to too many people who couldn't afford the loans they were taking. That's why the failures started first with sub-prime loans. The big banks had leveraged their assets on average 76 to 1. Meaning that for every $1 in assets, they had $76 in debt. You don't have to be an economist to know that those odds are dangerous, and a disaster waiting to happen.

Again, we live in a society that feels entitled. We have no idea what it means to live within our means. We have to have the best, the biggest, the newest, and the most expensive. My BIL works for the Township, and he has said that it's the BIG houses on private lakes and expensive sub-divisions that are having their water turned off, or being re-possessed for not paying taxes, etc....He often has to walk into these 3000+ sq. ft. houses, and says that they are full of electronics, the latest in all sorts of gadgets, and furniture, etc....they have boats, and other recreational vehicles....but they can't afford to pay their $75 water bill, or their $1000 property tax. I think that much of what we consider necessity in life is not so much need as want.

No one NEEDS a Wii or Playstation. No one NEEDS recreational vehicles. No one NEEDS a wide-screen TV, we don't even need to eat out, or have our nails done, or have new clothes every six months......and I'm not saying those things are bad and people shouldn't have them. I just think that they should come from saving and then buying them, not over-extending even more on credit that is already stretched to a breaking point. Or ignoring important debt to focus on getting what we want.

If DH and I both lost our jobs tomorrow - we would be okay. Our home is mostly payed for, and we own all 3 of our vehicles. One of those could be sold for enough for us to live comfortable for a long time. We have worked hard to make sure that we are fiscally responsible and not drowning in debt or owned by a bank.

I hate to think that now, I will be paying for all of those people who didn't manage their money well, or overextended and spent when they shouldn't have. Those of us who have been careful are going to end up footing the bill for those who haven't. That really bothers me.

Wow, you sound like you've been listening to Suze Orman..I love her...
Glad that you are going to be sound if anything ever happens...

 

[janetupnorth]

The Canadian equivalent of the FDA is actually not that different that the FDA in the USA, except that it tends to be more stringent & cautious than the FDA before approving drugs for sale in Canada.That said, it is an article from about a decade ago (& I didn't read the article). I'm commenting only b/c I felt a little offended at the way the article was discounted b/c it wasn't American. I'm sure that wasn't the intent of the posted message, but it seemed to assume that b/c it's from Canada it must be backwards or lacking in accuracy.Again, probably just me be hyper-sensitive. Please, don't shoot

I missed that but there is a BIG different of drugs allowed for sale in Canada vs. those allowed to pass through Canada.Pass-through drugs as an reputable licensed pharmacist in the US will testify do not have their source drugs validated stringently. I would by a B-grade generic in the US before I would by a drug for sale that came "through" Canada....and that is not knocking any of my Canadian friends or my Canadian heritage (Grandpa and my cousin's future wife are both from Canada and we have many relatives there still).

 

[peichef]

I agree with you there. If it wasn't overturned during the Bush years, I don't see how it will be overturned.

Forgive the ignorance of a lowly Canadian, but won't the next President likely appoint 2 Supreme Court Justices? So... wouldn't McCain do his best to appoint 2 Justices who share his opinions on Roe v Wade? Wouldn't Obama do the same?

Seems to me that you could see Roe v Wade overturned in the next 4 yrs, assuming McCain gets elected.

Please, correct me if I'm wrong.

BTW: the Cdn election is MUCH less heated!! I tried to start a thread, and no one posted. So yes, you're thread are heated, but that means great voter turn out. Our election is lacking in enthusiasm and probably will see poor voter turn out

 

[peichef]

I missed that but there is a BIG different of drugs allowed for sale in Canada vs. those allowed to pass through Canada.

Pass-through drugs as an reputable licensed pharmacist in the US will testify do not have their source drugs validated stringently. I would by a B-grade generic in the US before I would by a drug for sale that came "through" Canada.

...and that is not knocking any of my Canadian friends or my Canadian heritage (Grandpa and my cousin's future wife are both from Canada and we have many relatives there still).

you guys have lots of drugs that aren't yet available here as they await further testing. I wouldn't buy drugs from Canada either, if I were in the US, primarily b/c I like to know what I'm buying & don't have much confidence that drugs people buy online or through "irregular channels" are what they are claimed to be.

 

[Hathery]

Forgive the ignorance of a lowly Canadian, but won't the next President likely appoint 2 Supreme Court Justices? So... wouldn't McCain do his best to appoint 2 Justices who share his opinions on Roe v Wade? Wouldn't Obama do the same?

Seems to me that you could see Roe v Wade overturned in the next 4 yrs, assuming McCain gets elected.

Please, correct me if I'm wrong.

BTW: the Cdn election is MUCH less heated!! I tried to start a thread, and no one posted. So yes, you're thread are heated, but that means great voter turn out. Our election is lacking in enthusiasm and probably will see poor voter turn out

Yes, you're correct. I just believe that the backlash will always be too much to get it overturned.

 

[janetupnorth]

you guys have lots of drugs that aren't yet available here as they await further testing. I wouldn't buy drugs from Canada either, if I were in the US, primarily b/c I like to know what I'm buying & don't have much confidence that drugs people buy online or through "irregular channels" are what they are claimed to be.

Very true - there are some US drugs I'd never trust! Lipitor is one for me...I've seen enough negatives on that one for my tastes!

 

[BethCooks4U]

Not to me, we are clear, but there has been tense moments with others. The point wasn't that incident, but the fact that assumptions were being made then and now based on your limited exposure to events and not going back.

You made specific comments about the What I dislike about threads without referring to the source thread of McCain picks Palin which spawned those threads.

That was the point. Don't comment about the spawned threads without referring to the original source. That was passing judgment on those.

Anyway, if we all stick to the issues at hand and stop making these assumptions and "jumps", we won't have anything like this happen.

Back to the economy and lapse of work ethics...

Okay, Janet. I think you made your point here. Let's move on.

 

[janetupnorth]

Okay, Janet. I think you made your point here. Let's go on.

We've already moved on Beth.

 

[BethCooks4U]

I am upset at this point. Several of you said "go away" when we posted on the anti-Obama thread and now you are here commenting on our opinions and personalities. This thread is a Why I like Obama thread. I know I invited you (wanted to work across the aisle) but please be graceous guests.

I know that we aren't perfect either going by YOUR rules, this is our thread. Play nice.

 

[janetupnorth]

Nothing on my post was intended as harsh, just that we had already changed topic and moved on. Hathery and I have already both posted on other threads since then without any issues.I was here to stop the personal attacks and stuff and then as topic changed there was something to comment facts on that wasn't partisan.

 

[pampchefrhondab]

I posted this on another thread - but Wall Street is failing because Wall Street got greedy (and was given the go-ahead by the Clinton Administration - NOT the Bush Administration) and started lending too much money to too many people who couldn't afford the loans they were taking. That's why the failures started first with sub-prime loans. The big banks had leveraged their assets on average 76 to 1. Meaning that for every $1 in assets, they had $76 in debt. You don't have to be an economist to know that those odds are dangerous, and a disaster waiting to happen.

Again, we live in a society that feels entitled. We have no idea what it means to live within our means. We have to have the best, the biggest, the newest, and the most expensive. My BIL works for the Township, and he has said that it's the BIG houses on private lakes and expensive sub-divisions that are having their water turned off, or being re-possessed for not paying taxes, etc....He often has to walk into these 3000+ sq. ft. houses, and says that they are full of electronics, the latest in all sorts of gadgets, and furniture, etc....they have boats, and other recreational vehicles....but they can't afford to pay their $75 water bill, or their $1000 property tax. I think that much of what we consider necessity in life is not so much need as want.

No one NEEDS a Wii or Playstation. No one NEEDS recreational vehicles. No one NEEDS a wide-screen TV, we don't even need to eat out, or have our nails done, or have new clothes every six months......and I'm not saying those things are bad and people shouldn't have them. I just think that they should come from saving and then buying them, not over-extending even more on credit that is already stretched to a breaking point. Or ignoring important debt to focus on getting what we want.

If DH and I both lost our jobs tomorrow - we would be okay. Our home is mostly payed for, and we own all 3 of our vehicles. One of those could be sold for enough for us to live comfortable for a long time. We have worked hard to make sure that we are fiscally responsible and not drowning in debt or owned by a bank.

I hate to think that now, I will be paying for all of those people who didn't manage their money well, or overextended and spent when they shouldn't have. Those of us who have been careful are going to end up footing the bill for those who haven't. That really bothers me.

Well said!

I do think some of the problems is many grew up with certain material things and believe they want or need it right away - or can't live w/o it. If the banks give them easy money I guess it's really a temptation to fill those desires.

 

[BethCooks4U]

WOW! Have you guys been reading the responses about the Canadian health care system on the thread Di started? Those that are posting are saying good things. I hope that removes fears from at least some people.

I know that I have to jump through hoops now when I need to use my health insurance and my out of pocket expenses are high (our part of premium, co-pays and deductables). I like that Obama's plan says that we'll have choices too.

 

[priscilla]

Yes, you're correct. I just believe that the backlash will always be too much to get it overturned.

The backlash from whom? Polls from the last few years have shown those polled are roughly evenly divided on whether it should be legal or illegal. There are already cases gearing up to be brought to trial to get a shot at the Supreme Court (SD is one state, for example). A change in the makeup of the Supreme Court, as may happen in the next administration, could be a turning point. It may not be totally overturned all at once, but could be chipped at by rulings.

I think we in America look too much at the instantaneous, opinions can be swayed by a TV ad or debate or statement from one candidate about another. It is important that we research FOR OURSELVES what the candidate of our choice is saying or not saying, and think about the ramifications of the programs and decisions that will be made by the next administration.

Robin

 

[Hathery]

WOW! Have you guys been reading the responses about the Canadian health care system on the thread Di started? Those that are posting are saying good things. I hope that removes fears from at least some people.

I know that I have to jump through hoops now when I need to use my health insurance and my out of pocket expenses are high (our part of premium, co-pays and deductables). I like that Obama's plan says that we'll have choices too.

I might be a rarity here in the US, but I'm totally for national healthcare!! The complaints I've heard about the Canadian system are really nothing I haven't already encountered with the US system. I am thankful that my employer pays my health insurance (would be around $900 per month if I had to pay on my own), but I feel so guilty that some people have to pay that premium on their own, and through no FAULT of their own. They just weren't lucky enough to get a government job!

When we just switched to our new HMO at the beginning of this year, I was told I would need to wait 6 months to see an INTERN, and one year to see the primary physician I'd chose. When I wanted to get a sleep study done, I was told I would have to wait until the beginning of 2009 to schedule it (this was in March of this year.) I ended up having to leave the county and go to a less-populated county so I could get an appointment, and I drive nearly 45 mins from my city to see my primary care doctor. If this is what we like to call stellar health care, I'd hate to see what POOR health care is.

 

[Hathery]

The backlash from whom? Polls from the last few years have shown those polled are roughly evenly divided on whether it should be legal or illegal. There are already cases gearing up to be brought to trial to get a shot at the Supreme Court (SD is one state, for example). A change in the makeup of the Supreme Court, as may happen in the next administration, could be a turning point. It may not be totally overturned all at once, but could be chipped at by rulings.

I think we in America look too much at the instantaneous, opinions can be swayed by a TV ad or debate or statement from one candidate about another. It is important that we research FOR OURSELVES what the candidate of our choice is saying or not saying, and think about the ramifications of the programs and decisions that will be made by the next administration.

Robin

The backlash from the other half of the population who oppose overturning the law. I personally don't feel it will be overturned, but it doesn't mean it statistically couldn't happen.

 

[DebbieSAChef]

I didn't think anybody was, just pointing out that nice, Christian women who waited for their husbands to have sex have taken the morning after pill.



Wow. According to YOUR OWN ARTICLE, that's only one of the ways. Let's not sensationalize things, shall we?

Edited to say: Your article is from 1999 from a Canadian author. Lots have been done in science in 9 years, and the Candian FDA (or whatever they call it) is very different than the USA FDA. The author of the article lives in Alberta somewhere. Look up facts on Plan B, if you want to actually know the facts.



Debbie, with your reasoning, the birth control pill, which the morning after pill is just a mega dose of, is also having an abortion. You admitted to taking the pill.

I have the baby bug from time to time, too, but if I had a fourth, it would cause a lot of problems. I'm not just talking inconvenience and financially. Most likely, I would have to be on bedrest again, for who knows how long, and I have three kids to take care of. When my 2nd was born, I lost so much blood, I passed out for 2 hours. As my husband was leaving the OR (emergency C-Section), 4 more surgeons rushed in. I lost half my total blood volume. With my third, I was on bedrest for 8 weeks, had placenta previa, vanishing twin, and when my daughter was born 3 weeks early, only scored a 2 on her first two APGARS. I'm quite certain that God does not want to leave my husband a widower with four small children. I will be on BC until my husband or myself takes measures to have permanent birth control done.

I don't believe abortion is the right thing, by any standards. However, I am not going to support anything that imposes my own personal convictions and beliefs upon another person. That's what's so great about this country...we're all different.

I respect your opinions, but I think you know I do not agree with most of what you posted here.

Yes I did admit to taking the pill before I knew the facts. Ignorance is not bliss. Anyway I think that's it's a great misunderstanding to say that someone is pushing their own personal convictions and beliefs on someone when what I am saying is from the Word of God.
And before you say the usual response "That's your interpretation."
God is against the murder of innocent children. Period. No matter what anyone says or tries to justify there is no reason for it.

Debbie

 

[DebbieSAChef]

Jess, I think it was very brave of you to come out and share your story, so thank you for that.

As somone who belongs on the "other" thread, I have been reading this and find it very interesting that this is supposed to be about OBAMA and it has morphed into an abortion issue.

Those of you who have the "baby bug" might want to consider adopting some of those babies who you want to live rather than be aborted.

I'd like to know how many on this board have done that. I think it's also interesting to spout your views on the subject while waiting for "someone else" to adopt them.

And, I'm not talking about Chinese babies, Vietnamese babies, etc. I am talking about American babies of the young scared girls who wound up pregnant.

Well I am glad you brought that up. Because I have in more than one occasion offered to adopt several babies from girls who wanted to abort but by the grace of God and after some mentoring they felt they were ready to be moms and not give up their babies. God is so good.
I also have kind of adopted several children from a very poor community where my husband and I minister. So before you make assumptions, you really should ask. It still does not excuse abortion.
And I honestly would love to have 100 kids in my home, I would love to open an orphanage here in the USA so please pray for that. We have been praying about fostering which will eventually get us to adoption. I don't think your words were very nice and you specifically mentioned what I said "baby bug" to throw an accusation at me. I think you should apologize since you were wrong and your assumption was wrong. I love children and that is why I am so passionate about abortion.

Debbie

 

[Jessamary]

Yes I did admit to taking the pill before I knew the facts. Ignorance is not bliss. Anyway I think that's it's a great misunderstanding to say that someone is pushing their own personal convictions and beliefs on someone when what I am saying is from the Word of God.
And before you say the usual response "That's your interpretation."
God is against the murder of innocent children. Period. No matter what anyone says or tries to justify there is no reason for it.

Debbie

So, anyone moved on from earlier today? That's what I thought.

I have tried to be respectful, open-minded and polite. That may end now. Debbie, first of all don't put words in my mouth. You and I believe in the same God. Shocking, isn't it? Facts given by a church are subjective. It's like only getting your news from the 700 Club. And you know what? At this point, I know it's just wasteful time to converse with you because you are only seeing what you want to see. As I told someone in a PM earlier, I am certainly glad I am up here in Wisconsin and not anywhere near you in Texas. My kids, the kids in Sunday School (yes, I go to church, too! Wow!), will all grow up with an EDUCATION of the body, sex, etc. Kids don't have sex because they took a sex ed class. You know what, I took algebra, and I'm not out doing equations in dark alleys. I bet you'll be one of those parents that kicks her daughter out of the house if she gets pregnant, because you warned her not to fornicate. Yup, that's love for ya.

Because you probably didn't read a word of that, here, let me write what you want to hear: Abortion is right. Hey, let's all have abortions! We're going to have a PC party where everyone goes outside and sacrifices a live animal to Satan, then fornicate with crack heads who aren't our husbands and then have a follow up abortion party.

Thanks for bringing in the dead horse. Don't you all just love ignorance?

 

[chefsteph07]

Well I am glad you brought that up. Because I have in more than one occasion offered to adopt several babies from girls who wanted to abort but by the grace of God and after some mentoring they felt they were ready to be moms and not give up their babies. God is so good.
I also have kind of adopted several children from a very poor community where my husband and I minister. So before you make assumptions, you really should ask. It still does not excuse abortion.
And I honestly would love to have 100 kids in my home, I would love to open an orphanage here in the USA so please pray for that. We have been praying about fostering which will eventually get us to adoption. I don't think your words were very nice and you specifically mentioned what I said "baby bug" to throw an accusation at me. I think you should apologize since you were wrong and your assumption was wrong. I love children and that is why I am so passionate about abortion.

Debbie

What exactly was I "accusing"? You haven't been the only one who has said they have the baby bug. I was making a general statement that it's easy for those who preach against something to be of the masses who don't really DO anything about it. You said that you have ministered to young pregnant women and they have kept their babies. That's great for you.

 

[Jennie4PC]

Wow I am one to stay away from some of these mean posting but I am sorry when you start belittling people then it really needs to stop. Debbie has her views on abortion and Jessica you have your views. Everyone makes mistakes and the Lord will forgive our mistakes. For those of you who believe in Christ that is what he died for us on the cross. He died so that we could live with him again. There is only 1 person on this earth that was perfect and I know it isnt me.

 

[Jennie4PC]

I really think we need to get off the abortion bit of this thread everyone is intitled to thier opinions. Debbie has hers and Jessica has hers. I also have my own. We all make mistakes and we can be forgiven for those mistakes. No matter what we do as long as we a remorsfull to our mistake and promise to never do it again.

 

[Jessamary]

You're right Jennie. In fact, I said so much last night in response to Debbie. My response above was more about not reading what a post says when one responds to it.

But yes, you are right.

So....anyone have an Obama sign in their yard?

 

[jwpamp]

Me, me~ I just picked up a sign today and will be working the phones later this week.

Oh, come on -- you all knew I would have one --

 

[jrodeo]

I bet you'll be one of those parents that kicks her daughter out of the house if she gets pregnant, because you warned her not to fornicate. Yup, that's love for ya.

Because you probably didn't read a word of that, here, let me write what you want to hear: Abortion is right. Hey, let's all have abortions! We're going to have a PC party where everyone goes outside and sacrifices a live animal to Satan, then fornicate with crack heads who aren't our husbands and then have a follow up abortion party.

Thanks for bringing in the dead horse. Don't you all just love ignorance?

Wow. . . where's that iggy button.

 

[Jessamary]

Wow. . . where's that iggy button.

I'm being ignored? For what? I admit I lost my cool with Debbie, but why are you getting involved? Have you read the whole thread? I posted like 6 times saying I respected her opinion, but did not agree.

 

[JAE]

I'm being ignored? For what? I admit I lost my cool with Debbie, but why are you getting involved? Have you read the whole thread? I posted like 6 times saying I respected her opinion, but did not agree.

Yes, but post #141 was a bit obnoxious and overkill.

 

[pampchefrhondab]

All I can say for post #141 is, "how sad."

 

[Kitchen Diva]

All I can say for post #141 is, "how sad."

It's beyond sad, it was mean, disgusting, and rather inflamitory. And yes, I've read the entire thread (I'm just saying that incase anyone comes after me)

 

[Jessamary]

I apologize and I will remove it.

 

[ShanaSmith]

YEP! Got mine yesterday!