Is My Director's Training Policy Fair?

[momofmany]

I'm an occasional reader and I need some perspective from other consultants.

My ED is having a Spring Regional training event. It is an all day event put on by directors in her down line. Her policy is that if a director choses not to participate and attend, then that director's downline cannot attend.

Well my director is not participating and hence I cannot attend. I know about the event since I have attended in the past and I thought it was a really helpful event. In addition, I'm good friends with one of the participating directors and she's told me all the details.

I don't know why my director isn't participating because she's not much of a director. She is instead hosting her own training event which will be a 1 hour evening training attended by two consultants at most. In my mind this is not comparable to the training and networking opportunity I could receive at the Regional event.

I'm really frustrated. I spoke w/ both my ED and Director today and both were adament that I cannot attend because it would be in violation of the director participation policy estalished by the ED. They were completely inflexible. I cannot believe their attitudes reflects the philosophies of other ED/directors. I mean - really - what is the harm in allowing me to receive training.

So getting to my question - for those of you under other leaders - does the above sound reasonable (because I think it is totally stupid). In addition - is there anywhere I could go for support on this? My ED is Home Office direct. (The other directors on her team, other than my good friend, were of no help to me).

I had a good relationship with my ED and director until today..........not so much now. I've been in the business for 3 years and am a former TPC achiever and incentive trip achiever. I want to walk away from this now because I cannot stand the lack of leadership.

If you have read this far.......thanks for reading.

 

[sfdavis918]

I wonder why it matters if your director is there? If she were there they would have a seat for you, right? Do the directors pay a fee or something that she would not be sharing in? That to me would be the only reason that I could see.

I have no idea what other avenues you can take though. It sounds like you are stuck with not going. How frustrating!

 

[sklay723]

I am so sorry to hear that you're having trouble this way. I wonder if there's another cluster somewhere close to you that might also do some sort of training? I think it's pretty narrow-minded of someone to exclude an entire downline just because the director won't (or can't) participate.
Just a thought...does anyone in another downline plan on attending, someone you could talk to about getting notes after the training? I am making friends with several people in my cluster, and I think it's nice to have friends both in and outside of my particular line...and I know that at least one or two of them would probably be happy to let me share their notes from training, if something like that happened here. I know it's not the same as attending, but it's just a thought...
My best advice is to keep your head up...you're not in this business for your director OR your ED, so do the best you can and ALWAYS do it for yourself.

 

[DebbieJ]

That is absolutely absurd.Do you know who your ED's sales manager is? If she is HO direct, it's either Cora Fischer or Jan Gilbert. I'd call one of them. Call the Solution Center and asked to be transferred to Consultant Career Solutions if you can't get through to anyone else. This really needs to be addressed in my opinion. There is no way you should be thinking of quitting because of your director or your upline.

 

[momofmany]

The directors put on the event, however the cost of the event is covered by a fee paid by participants, so there isn't an out of pocket cost for them.

My ED told me that if my director chose not to attend that she must not want her team receive this training. If I attend the event and my director doesn't, it would be the same as other directors training me as a consultant and she would never want that to happen. Ummmmmmmm isn't that the point of an overall training session? It provides training from many perspectives.

FWIW, my style is very different from my director, so an event like this is really important to me. It is really frustrating to work with leaders who are so short sighted.

Thanks for your support.

 

[Shawnna]

My thought is that your director is not sharing the cost of the event...door prizes, room rent, food, etc...and that is why they say you can't attend...which sounds pretty crappy to me. But, I can see that if a lot of people wanted to go from that one group but didn't share in the cost that it could be a burden on everyone else.

Are there any other trainings in your area? Probably would do any good to contact HO. That would just cause more problems between you and the Director/ED.

I guess my only suggestion is that if you know someone who is going ask them to take really good notes for you.

I wish I could go to the trainings offered by my upline, but the travel distance is just too much of a burden on my fuel budget.

 

[Shawnna]

Well my post was late. I guess you were posting the same time as me. If you are the one who pays the fee then I really think that is DUMB!! And for that matter, we are in business for ourselves, so it doesn't matter what training your director "doesn't" want you to have. She is there to help you not hinder you. I am sorry this is happening to you. I see your goal is to become a director, so this is just another great reason to do it.

 

[chefallison53]

Have you voiced your wanting to attend to your director? Maybe another director in the area could invite you as hospitaliy. I for the life of me don't understand why you couldn't attend since you are in the ED's downline? A consultant seeking training from her upline is only protocal and somewhat expected if you want to expand and grow with this business! My ED would never turn me away... she is the kindest and most ladylike woman I have known in sometime! The nerve of some people! Want me to tell on your ED for you? LOL!

 

[Kitchen2u]

Had I not received training from my ED and SED, I would probably not be a Director today. They gave me great advice, words, confidence and encouragement...something I probably I would not have had if I tried for Directorship on my own since my Director wasn't much help at all. I love my Director, but she really didn't have the expertise I needed at the time.

Mind you, at the time, I was my SED 4th line! So what I performed...meant nothing monetarily to her. But her philosophy is what help she can give to her downline...no matter how far down, if they are willing to do the work needed, she's there for us. I'm her 3rd line now.

With that said, I am having a HARD TIME digesting what you said! I would NEVER turn someone away. I have helped other consultants across the states with no invested interest to me at all. When I attended my 1st National Conference, I was so impressed with everyone willing to help, all the way up to NSEDs. At that time, I vowed to help ANY consultant, if all possible.

AND THIS IS A HOME OFFICE DIRECT? WOW...If I were you, I'd call HO on this matter. Something is NOT right.

Best of luck to you...hope you're able to get the training you are ENTITLED to!

 

[RebelChef]

I have to agree with the others. That's the most narrow-minded, ignorant thing I've ever heard. Call HO and speak to someone. If they can't do anything, find out about other training close to your area. I seriously doubt there are many with the poor attitude yours has. What goes around comes around and her lack of support will come back to haunt her.

Whether she's getting any direct benefit from you being there or not, it'll benefit you and that in turn, benefits the cluster. If it weren't for the ones all the way down the line, the upper levels would be nowhere. They're all supported from the bottom up. A ladder will not stand for long with only top rungs.

 

[wadesgirl]

With holding training is not what PC is about!!! I cannot believe an ED would say something like that. I understand her wanting to make sure everyone gets there but to not train certain consultants because their director doesn't want to attend is absurd. I agree with those that said to call HO and talk to the sales director above your group. This doesn't sound like anything PC would stand by or promote!

 

[finley1991]

I agree with Deb and Allison -- call HO and talk to your sales manager. They need to know that your D is NOT doing her job. Then ask another director if you can come as hospitality.

 

[ChefBeckyD]

I also agree, you need to call HO. There is some very narrow-minded thinking going on all the way through your upline. It is not only to the benefit of your director for you to attend training, it would also benefit your ED. Even if your director chooses not to attend, you are still part of your ED's downline, and I can't see any way that she can actually exclude you.

Make that Call!

 

[momofmany]

Thank you very much, PC friends, for your kind words of support. I have a call into the HO to speak with the sales manager. I appreciate the additional insights and ideas you've given me as I think through the situation.

Thank you again!

 

[chefjeanine]

My thought is that your director is not sharing the cost of the event...door prizes, room rent, food, etc...and that is why they say you can't But, I can see that if a lot of people wanted to go from that one group but didn't share in the cost that it could be a burden on everyone else.

Your Director is not providing money, time or talent. . .so her group doesn't get to participate. I'm very sorry she is not interested in bettering her group but I understand why the ED is taking this stand. No moochers.

I don't think the ED's stance on this is a HO issue. Perhaps you might want to call HO if your Director is not providing the support you need. . .but I don't think they can or should get involved in the ED decision.

 

[ChefBeckyD]

Your Director is not providing money, time or talent. . .so her group doesn't get to participate. I'm very sorry she is not interested in bettering her group but I understand why the ED is taking this stand. No moochers.

I have to diagree with that....She said that they are paying to attend, so she would not be a moocher - and the fact is that even if her director doesn't attend - Momofmany is STILL a part of her ED downline....and should be included in downline training....why should she be punished for her director's mistakes?Maybe I just have too good of an upline - because I cannot imagine this ever happening in my extended cluster. A couple years ago, there was a director that moved out of state, and pretty much abandoned her cluster - and they were all still included in upline training. Using the logic presented here, they would have just been left out on their own, with no guidance....and that doesn't make sense.

 

[chefjeanine]

she would not be a moocher Please be clear, I am speaking of the Director not momofmanyand the fact is that even if her director doesn't attend - Momofmany is STILL a part of her ED downline....yes, she is part of that downline, but the ED has her own "first line" to consider and we really don't know how far removed this Director is from the ED

A couple years ago, there was a director that moved out of state, and pretty much abandoned her cluster - and they were all still included in upline training.

When a Director moves from the area, that's a different story. This Director is around and, it would seem, able to be an active participant in this event. It requires a great deal of work to put on a training and that's why I can understand the ED's position. It is the Director's responsiblity to provide training for his/her group so if they want to be part of something, they have to be willing to put in the effort.

 

[cmdtrgd]

That is so stupid for your ED to do that. I mean, what if your director was in the hospital, would you still not be able to go? Something could be going on in your director's life that causes her not to be able to go or want to go. Maybe your director is looking at leaving PC. It would be to you ED's benefit to get to know you and train you!!! You NEVER know who the next NED could be!

 

[wadesgirl]

Your Director is not providing money, time or talent. . .so her group doesn't get to participate. I'm very sorry she is not interested in bettering her group but I understand why the ED is taking this stand. No moochers.

I don't think the ED's stance on this is a HO issue. Perhaps you might want to call HO if your Director is not providing the support you need. . .but I don't think they can or should get involved in the ED decision.

No moochers? The ED probably makes money on her downline consultants that she isn't offering the training to just because the directors don't want to go. Isn't that a moocher right there. As long as she pays for herself, she isn't a moocher. My immediate group has 2 directors that share a group with our AD. Everyone is invited to our meetings, even directors who have branched off to do their own meetings still come back and bring their downline with them once in a while.

 

[wadesgirl]

The ED should be on the director's butt for not wanting to participate!

 

[ChefBeckyD]

When a Director moves from the area, that's a different story. This Director is around and, it would seem, able to be an active participant in this event. It requires a great deal of work to put on a training and that's why I can understand the ED's position. It is the Director's responsiblity to provide training for his/her group so if they want to be part of something, they have to be willing to put in the effort.

There are a lot of consultants who don't get support/training from their immediate director, and their upline directors step in and support them and give them the training they want/need. I can think of several on this site even.

It is very short-sighted to have someone in your downline, and not provide the training they need. Like I said before - she is being punished for something that is out of her control. I cannot imagine having someone in my downline (no matter how far removed) who wanted training, and I refused because their recruiter/director wasn't holding up their end of the deal.

In fact, in a smaller way - I have a recruit who reactivates every season just in time to get samples at 50% off....she happens to have a recruit, who actually is interested in working her business....so we just bypass the recruiter, and she works directly with me. I think that is more the model that most of us would expect to see in this situation.

 

[ChefBeckyD]

No moochers? The ED probably makes money on her downline consultants that she isn't offering the training to just because the directors don't want to go. Isn't that a moocher right there. As long as she pays for herself, she isn't a moocher. My immediate group has 2 directors that share a group with our AD. Everyone is invited to our meetings, even directors who have branched off to do their own meetings still come back and bring their downline with them once in a while.

Good point - and very true!

 

[chefann]

In fact, in a smaller way - I have a recruit who reactivates every season just in time to get samples at 50% off....she happens to have a recruit, who actually is interested in working her business....so we just bypass the recruiter, and she works directly with me. I think that is more the model that most of us would expect to see in this situation.

Actually, Becky, she'll bump up to you the next time her recruiter goes inactive anyway.

 

[ChefBeckyD]

Actually, Becky, she'll bump up to you the next time her recruiter goes inactive anyway.

Yep - she just did this past season. She is now part of my downline.....doesn't count as my 5 to make director - but she does count as my 5 to keep directorship!

the point I was making is that I could have refused to train her, because she wasn't my recruit.....but I knew she wasn't getting the training she wanted/needed from her recruiter, so I stepped in.....even before she became my recruit, she was still in my downline, and I had a responsibility and the privilege of training her!

 

[wadesgirl]

Good point - and very true!

I get a little agitated with name calling, if she wants to call names, it's the ED that's a moocher!

 

[ChefBeckyD]

And Jeanine - I just wanted you to know that I am not trying to be combative....you have my total respect - this is just something about which we disagree....and which obviously creates some passion inside me!

 

[susanr613]

Yes, this is a HO issue

Your Director is not providing money, time or talent. . .so her group doesn't get to participate. I'm very sorry she is not interested in bettering her group but I understand why the ED is taking this stand. No moochers.

I don't think the ED's stance on this is a HO issue. Perhaps you might want to call HO if your Director is not providing the support you need. . .but I don't think they can or should get involved in the ED decision.

I believe this is very much of an HO issue (the EDs ruling on downline teams). The ED's actions are in opposition to the direct sales and the multi-level marketing business models, which PC deploys very well.

Direct sales depends on well-trained, motivated sales people. The ED is denying members of her team the chance to acquire training and demotivating them to the point where they (she) may walk. If she's already earned TPC, well, there goes 50-100k.

The multi-level marketing business model depends on a constant flow of new people into the organization. The ED is pushing out not only one person, but the potential of many more.

I know we each run our own business, but ignoring the big picture will wind up biting this ED in the kiester.

Please let us know how it goes with HO.

 

[ChefBeckyD]

I believe this is very much of an HO issue (the EDs ruling on downline teams). The ED's actions are in opposition to the direct sales and the multi-level marketing business models, which PC deploys very well.

Direct sales depends on well-trained, motivated sales people. The ED is denying members of her team the chance to acquire training and demotivating them to the point where they (she) may walk. If she's already earned TPC, well, there goes 50-100k.

The multi-level marketing business model depends on a constant flow of new people into the organization. The ED is pushing out not only one person, but the potential of many more.

I know we each run our own business, but ignoring the big picture will wind up biting this ED in the kiester.

Please let us know how it goes with HO.

Okay - thanks for saying so eloquently what was inside me - but I couldn't quite get out!

 

[chefallison53]

I wouldn't say it is "mooching" if it is your downline! That is kinda messed up to say so!

 

[chefjeanine]

IMO the “moocher” is the Director if she expects the ED to provide training to that Director’s down line . . . training that the Director has not made an effort to be a part of.

Usually, HO doesn’t give an inch when there is a problem with not meeting some incentive requirement or another. The reason they do that is so that more trouble is not created further down the line. You make an exception for one and you need to make an exception for all.

I suspect this is the ED’s reason for not allowing momofmany to attend.

Is the ED being shortsighted? Perhaps. But, what if many Directors underneath her decided they were not going to participate in the training (plan, teach, pay for, make food for or whatever is asked) but they were going to send their recruits on over for some training. This would not be fair to the ED or the Director’s who do work hard to make the training special.

I strongly agree that the ED should be all over the Director to participate. But, this is the Directors business to run however she sees fit (isn’t that why so many of us like this business?) She can’t twist her arm. And if memory serves me correctly, the Director is providing a training session (half-a$$ed though it may be).

I wish momofmany was not in this situation, it stinks. I hope that she can find some way to get her Director (by being the squeaky wheel with the ED?) to wake up and do the right thing (take advantage of these great training opportunities).

 

[wadesgirl]

But one of the reasons for promoting so high in this company is to help your team! Otherwise she wouldn't be an ED. The absent director may not care about her team, so that would move the responsibility (in most situations) up the line. I don't think it's right to withhold training or anything just because someone in the middle doesn't feel like it. My director trains her line, several directors under her and other consultants under them. What would happen if this absent director relinquished directorship, then her consultants would roll up, would then be the next upline director's "responsibility". My upline director's all email me when I do a good job, open up their houses for training or just to talk, etc. Maybe I should just be grateful for the family I'm in.

 

[ChefBeckyD]

But one of the reasons for promoting so high in this company is to help your team! Otherwise she wouldn't be an ED. The absent director may not care about her team, so that would move the responsibility (in most situations) up the line. I don't think it's right to withhold training or anything just because someone in the middle doesn't feel like it. My director trains her line, several directors under her and other consultants under them. What would happen if this absent director relinquished directorship, then her consultants would roll up, would then be the next upline director's "responsibility". My upline director's all email me when I do a good job, open up their houses for training or just to talk, etc. Maybe I should just be grateful for the family I'm in.

Me too. In November, I was really struggling, trying to figure out how to keep my business on an even keel when doing 12 shows a month. I asked my director for help - but she couldn't answer some of my questions - so I emailed my SD
(at the suggestion of my director) - who, instead of just an email back, called me and did some training with me over the phone for about an hour. I've received emails all the way up through my ED (who is also HO direct), and I just cannot wrap my brain around an Upline director refusing training to someone in their downline....

 

[KellyTheChef]

IMO the “moocher” is the Director if she expects the ED to provide training to that Director’s down line . . . training that the Director has not made an effort to be a part of.

Usually, HO doesn’t give an inch when there is a problem with not meeting some incentive requirement or another. The reason they do that is so that more trouble is not created further down the line. You make an exception for one and you need to make an exception for all.

I suspect this is the ED’s reason for not allowing momofmany to attend.

Is the ED being shortsighted? Perhaps. But, what if many Directors underneath her decided they were not going to participate in the training (plan, teach, pay for, make food for or whatever is asked) but they were going to send their recruits on over for some training. This would not be fair to the ED or the Director’s who do work hard to make the training special.

I strongly agree that the ED should be all over the Director to participate. But, this is the Directors business to run however she sees fit (isn’t that why so many of us like this business?) She can’t twist her arm. And if memory serves me correctly, the Director is providing a training session (half-a$$ed though it may be).

I wish momofmany was not in this situation, it stinks. I hope that she can find some way to get her Director (by being the squeaky wheel with the ED?) to wake up and do the right thing (take advantage of these great training opportunities).

Wow...lots of responses here! I have to agree with Jeanine, though. It sucks, but that would explain the ED's decision to only allow the downlines of PARTICIPATING directors. I don't think that my upline would do this, though... My Director is pretty involved in ALL of our trainings from our uplines, but if she wasn't, I still think I would be invited.

 

[Chef Kearns]

Wow! I am so privileged to know so many awesome, caring and willing to share upper level directors. Many are not in my cluster. I have worked with Duska Mills who is not in my cluster AT ALL!! She will email me and we will talk on the phone. She doesn't get a penny for training me (although I hope we are friends also). The same goes for Marsha Fewell! Now she is my dear girlfriend, but if she behaved like this ED I would never know her. We shouldn't be stingy with training.

If the ED in question would just allow anyone to attend she would find that many would be WILLING to help where she needed help. Just because someone is not a Director doesn't mean that they cannot help train others or bring a recipe or run the drawings. Getting everyone in your downline involved no matter what their leadership level is grooms leaders!

Since Momofmany is in her downline she should not be excluded from this training. If she is willing to pay the entrance fee it is a no-brainer! I agree with Becky that the ED should just embrace Momofmany and train her how she should/needs to be trained because she is a fellow consultant with PC and is looking to grow. It should not rely on downlines and who she falls under.

 

[momofmany]

Update: Training Issue with EDLast week I posted an issue about a regional training that my ED is hosting for her directors/downline and the fact that I could not attend because my director opted not to participate. I appreciate all the helpful feedback so wanted to send a follow up:

At the suggestion of many, I took my concern to the HO as my ED is through HO direct. I scheduled an appointment on the HO calendar and then sent her an e-mail summarizing my situation, my assessment, and then asked for her support. I had a productive conversation with the HO person, she understood my postion and agreed with me, she complimented me on my writing skill, and offered to call my ED. She did so, and, as I expected.........nothing changed.

In this experience, my eyes were really opened to the leadership of my ED, my director and their leadership perspective. I find it amazing that an ED would turn down the opportunity to provide training in her downline, because I really think the ED's role is to help consultants succeed in their businesses. This regional sales event in new products, networking, and recognition, and all are equally important in motivating me. In addition, as an extrovert, I am energized through contacts with other Pampered Chef consultants.

I realize each leader can run their business their own way, but I don't feel valued by my leaders, as in not at all. My own philophy is to always help others, because the blessings will come back to you in the end. Right now I really don't want to be involved with my leaders.

Thank you for your encouragement, however, and for those of you have leaders who really support you - well, you are lucky!

 

[JAE]

So sorry, momofmany, that nothing changed. At least you didn't just sit back and do nothing.

 

[sfdavis918]

I am so sorry that talking to HO did nothing to help. I can not believe that this ED is being this way. It is just crazy to me!! I am so upset and angry for you. I have a very absent Director as well, and have only heard from any of her upline once, so I know what it is like to not have support. I kind of feel like your situation is even worse though, because there is a training going on that you should be able to participate in but can't. At least with my Director, there isn't any training going on at all!

 

[Chef Kearns]

I had really hoped that HO would make ED make an exception after your appeal. That is truly frustrating. Did you ask HO about switching to a hospitality? It is in HO best interest to keep you happy and WELL TRAINED!! They should actively help you find someone willing and able to support you.

 

[Jules711]

This is where I find it frustrating that you can do NOTHING when you find yourself in a cluster that doesn't help you or care for you. I LOVE my cluster and my ED is my directors direct upline. I am invited to everything they do even though it is usually too far for me to go to and I love the support I have. I think the PC really has to acknowledge the fact that if a director (no matter the level) isn't satisfying our needs, that we (with good reason) should be able to change directors. Why do they earn money, get credit, earn incentives based on what we do on our own completely without the help that we need and ask for? It would make me want to leave too. My suggestion (as others have mentioned is to see about the possibility of a hospitality group). Good luck!!