Mortgage Relief Plan: An Unfair Solution to the Mortgage Crisis

[susanr613]

please keep in mind that this is one of several strategies being tried. it has to work in conjunction with others. A "bunch of people overbuying" is not the sole cause of this crisis, and the package is not designed to help them anyway. It's designed to keep money in the financial system by enabling those that can to continue paying for their houses. From a human perspective, I think it's better for community/national morale to see people in their homes, continuing to strive, instead of neighborhoods blanketed with forclosure/short sale signs. It's also safer - empty neighborhoods are targets for vandalism and other crime.

I am disappointed that some people posting here seem to have no sense of compassion or desire to help their fellow person. This plan is not at all like me going into your fridge and taking your food. It's more like the neighbors rallying to bring food to an invalid, knowing that she will recover and be back out and about one day.

 

[BethCooks4U]

please keep in mind that this is one of several strategies being tried. it has to work in conjunction with others. A "bunch of people overbuying" is not the sole cause of this crisis, and the package is not designed to help them anyway. It's designed to keep money in the financial system by enabling those that can to continue paying for their houses. From a human perspective, I think it's better for community/national morale to see people in their homes, continuing to strive, instead of neighborhoods blanketed with forclosure/short sale signs. It's also safer - empty neighborhoods are targets for vandalism and other crime.

I am disappointed that some people posting here seem to have no sense of compassion or desire to help their fellow person. This plan is not at all like me going into your fridge and taking your food. It's more like the neighbors rallying to bring food to an invalid, knowing that she will recover and be back out and about one day.

I love this analogy!

 

[jrodeo]

Not sure on my thoughts on this yet, I am trying to list the pros and cons...it has so much more to do with than just helping out those who bought more house than they could afford, it has to do with stabilizing a faltering economy.

However, I did tell my son to remind his very negative minded econ teacher the difference between Democrats and Republicans begins in Kindergarten....

The Democratic Kindergartener will share his crayons with his classmate, and the Republican one would tell the classmate to go get a job and buy his own.

This is what the democrat politicians have all the democrats convinced of. If you check the statistics, republicans give more in charity every year, way more than democrats. And the democrats actually have more money than the republicans, so you can't use that excuse. And, by the way, I'm so unhappy with my own party right now that I can't even say I'm a Republican anymore. I'm just a conservative. I think most of the politicians are out for their own hide and couldn't give a hoot for all of us out here in the trenches.

 

[BadGirl]

I am disappointed that some people posting here seem to have no sense of compassion or desire to help their fellow person. This plan is not at all like me going into your fridge and taking your food. It's more like the neighbors rallying to bring food to an invalid, knowing that she will recover and be back out and about one day.

We have compassion, but we've also worked for what we have and didn't over extend our finances. When a Realtor and a Bank told us we qualified for a $450,000 mortgage we stayed small and went with about 1/2 that amount. Seeing what is going on now I wish we did buy the 450K house so you could pay my mortgage.. being that you are so compassionate.

Now that we made the right decisions we don't get a break on our interest rates, nor do we get a break of $8 - 15000 in a free loan. We still have to live in our small house while our neighbor in the 4000 sf house with 4 bedrooms, 3.5 baths a rec room, and a swimming pool has his hands out for MY money so he can renegotiate his loan for a lower than prime rate AND get a free loan (that he doesn't have to pay back) so he can afford the house he shouldn't have bought in the first place.

And it's NOT like helping out an invalid. I don't know of a single invalid that got that way by choice.

 

[Crystal Patton]

I think what is needed is a hand up, not a hand-out. But it is a fine line to tell the difference between the two. A line I am not qualified to find, I hope those we elected, as a nation, can.

 

[BadGirl]

I think what is needed is a hand up, not a hand-out. But it is a fine line to tell the difference between the two. A line I am not qualified to find, I hope those we elected, as a nation, can.

California elected the people in charge now.. not the nation.

 

[Crystal Patton]

California elected the people in charge now.. not the nation.

Honey, don't even go there. I am soo with you and that is a WHOLE other bucket of fish.

 

[PamperChefCarol]

Wow! Normally, I don't get too offended by the posts on this site, but this one really did! I understand totally where everyone is coming from in thinking that there is a problem with people buying things they can't afford. My hubby and I are in the mortgage problem. The reason why I am so offended is because we could afford our house when we BUILT it! My husband had an AWESOME job. In fact, I was going to school full-time (student teaching at that), and we were building a house, saving money and traveling! We were doing very well. Then the company he worked for got sued by the union. The company had a choice. They could either pay up the wazoo for every worker they had working for them or rejoin the union. They chose to rejoin the union. Unfortunately, they couldn't afford all the union benefits (we had benefits under the company pre-union, too). So the owner sold out to another guy. This guy decided to quit paying a couple of workers. We went to the union to try to work this out, and they told us that because we didn't pay the dues, they couldn't help us. Their lazy butts couldn't see that we couldn't afford to pay the dues because my hubby hadn't gotten a paycheck. We had another home we were renting. It was our first home that was a dump that we bought extremely cheap then fixed up. How did we know so many years ago that the housing market would crash? Well, we had a short sale on it, and the mortgage company "lost" our file. It just turned up in Massachusetts! I went to school for teaching. Michigan right now has the highest unemployment rate in the nation (over 10%) and the schools are even cutting back on substitute teaching. We are scraping to get through this crisis. So, if it means the government can help us out after they signed that stupid NAFTA agreement which heavily hurt Michigan, then by all means help me out. I just wish that people would realize that there is a gray area out there. Again, we were doing quite well, and we are very smart with our money, but we got hurt.

Another one in the same leaky boat. We did all the right things and bought a house that we could more than afford, the economy took a dive, we lost our business, our savings, retirement, etc and now aren't looking for a bailout, just a hand to hep us through until we can get straight. And it's not for lack of trying on our part, husband has 2 jobs (which is amazing for a man his age) and I have, what, 5? If someone can push the mortage company to lower our rate a bit, I am all for it. I will be dammed if I am going to loose my house, but a little help would sure help.

 

[susanr613]

BadGirl, many people that this plan is designed to help didn't get that way by choice either...just read some of the posts on this board. Unemployment/underemployment and catastrophic health issues can wreak havoc even on a healthy budget.

For example, I had to visit the ER recently. Fortunately nothing was wrong, but I needed a lot of tests. My hospital bill was over $7,000, which is actually pretty light. My insurance covered all but $700, which I am paying off over the next 6 months. I live in a small house, have a small car, and have a full time job plus Pampered Chef. I am aggresively saving through a 401K, 529 plan for DS's college, none of which I can touch without paying heavy penalties. So, if I didn't have health insurance or if I lost my job, I would, all of a sudden, be in a lot of trouble NOT of my own choosing.

We can all find irresponsible, overleveraged people in our lives. Look a little harder, and you'll find the responsible people who got knocked sideways by life.

 

[pamperedlinda]

This thread is going on the ugly side ya'll....please don't go where the political threads went back in the fall. There are friendships here that don't need to be hurt and other 'non-friendships' that don't need to be stoked. Please, can't we have a conversation without the blame-game and petty comments?

 

[jwpamp]

Hey, I for one think that it's a good thing to help each other. Isn't that what Jesus would do?

 

[pampchefrhondab]

Jesus would say, "Though shall not steal."!

 

[jwpamp]

Yes, and then He would forgive them. And let's remember that not everyone who is losing their homes did bad things. Many of them were a victim of circumstances of the economy. Look at Carol and Kelly....it's only my opinion, but I don't think that the "everybody for themselves" attitude works very well and I would certainly appreciate a helping hand if I were in those shoes.Like I said, I am not sure if this whole thing will work, so I don't have an opinion on it yet.

 

[jrstephens]

This thread is going on the ugly side ya'll....please don't go where the political threads went back in the fall. There are friendships here that don't need to be hurt and other 'non-friendships' that don't need to be stoked. Please, can't we have a conversation without the blame-game and petty comments?

Now Linda, don't you know that doesn't seem possible on this site here lately? HA!

 

[wadesgirl]

I didn't read a lot in here but I just wanted to give my story. DH and I met at our last job. It was a company that had been around this area for 40 plus years and right after I started there in 2000 they were sold to a corporate company. DH and I met after I had worked there for 2 years, he had already been there for 8 years. Four months before our wedding in 2006 they closed the company and we were all out of our jobs. Luckily we do not live outside of our means. We both drive really crappy used cars (seriously falling apart) and paid cash for a trailer so we could save for a house one day! Neither of us have alot of debt and have been working to pay it all off before we even get our house. Luckily we were both able to find jobs shortly after being laid off and we still work together. But we now drive 35 minutes one way to get to work (and that's highway traveling from our large town to a smaller town that had jobs). Instead of ignoring the situation and looking for hand outs, we have made things work with what we have. I see his brother and SIL who are living large, buying huge houses, getting new cars, etc and just hope that the day never comes where they loose everything for the choices they made now.

 

[Kelly8]

Who is stealing?! That I take awesome offense to! It's so ironic to me that everyone is so passionate about this mortgage help, yet the government has had federal aide for decades for people who simply don't work! Isn't anybody up in arms over that?! Why are so many people so upset about helping people who deserve it when the economy took a nosedive!?
Carol-welcome to my leaky boat! We can band together and help each other!
Susanr-thanks for your compassion and understanding. Your posts are very well stated!

 

[jrstephens]

yet the government has had federal aide for decades for people who simply don't work! Isn't anybody up in arms over that?! !

I get up in arms about this all the time when I see people abusing it. It irritates me to no end to see someone pay for their groceries with welfare but see them getting into a BMW in the parking lot.

I am all for programs that help people that actually need it but I am totally against programs that help people that made bad choices over and over again without the consequences of them.

Just recently there was a story on the news about the rising cost of insurance on the gulf due to the hurricanes. This one lady was talking about the $34 month increase was going to send them under, all while she is standing in front of her huge two story brick home with a carport full of 3 expenses cars and a boat and a manicured lawn! Can she not see the need to down size instead going on the news complaining about her expenses?

 

[BethCooks4U]

We are talking about our collective money here and that makes us passionate but come on folks! What happened to compassion?

The welfare system was started to help people out of poverty. It helps a lot of people get back on their feet but unfortunately the system is very flawed and some take advantage of it while others don't get the help when they truly need it.

We are not talking about welfare in this instance. There are a ton of hard working people in trouble through no fault of their own. Why can't they get help?

Sure some made stupid mistakes or risky decisions but who are we to judge. That's why there has to be oversight. Someone has to decide who gets the help and they are saying that the money is not intended for those who bought more house than they should have.

Now, the "welfare" that fires me up is the money is given to the rich, the CEO's and other "top" people. They don't need those bonuses when they fail, they don't need tax breaks that they don't pass down to the workers. I think that bonuses and tax breaks should be awarded only for American jobs created. How it works now is they lay off people so they can claim a profit and then they get the bonus - hello? I can't see how they can sleep knowing families are suffering and losing everything so they can get their millions.

 

[ChefBeckyD]

There are (at least) two different schools of thought on this whole stimulus plan - and there is very little ground for meeting in the middle, because the reason we think differently about it is because we have a totally different view of the role of national gov't in our lives.I think the stimulus plan is a bad idea - but because I do has NO BEARING on my level of compassion, or how much I give or serve.
Compassion is a part of my lifestyle - and I believe in abundantly giving back. That does not mean that I have to agree with or support the current stimulus plan.

 

[Stampaholic1961]

For what it's worth......some quotes of Thomas Jefferson..... The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.
Thomas Jefferson It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. A principle which if acted on would save one-half the wars of the world.
Thomas Jefferson I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. Thomas Jefferson My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government.
Thomas Jefferson No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
Thomas Jefferson The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
Thomas Jefferson The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
Thomas Jefferson To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.
Thomas JeffersonVery Interesting Quote In light of the present financial crisis, it's interesting to read what Thomas Jefferson said in 1802:
'I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.'

 

[ChefBeckyD]

Thomas Jefferson was a very wise man.

Wonder if these could be forwarded to the White House?

 

[Stampaholic1961]

Wonder if these could be forwarded to the White House?

I actually had the same thought!!!

 

[Crystal Patton]

I enjoyed the Thomas Jefferson quotes - Thank you.

 

[chefsteph07]

*This is part of an article that is currently on Yahoo news right now as to where this money is going...50 million for Arts? What is it? 200 MILLION to relocate Homeland Security??? And the Dems say the Repubs have irresponsible spending???*

Read below....

The stimulus included $2.7 billion for seven major justice grants, including the Byrne Grants, which state and local governments use for crime-fighting strategies.

Democrats also got a long list of other projects into the bill whose stimulative effects have been questioned, including $50 million for the National Endowment for the Arts , $165 million for "critical deferred maintenance" at wildlife refuges and fish hatcheries, $200 million for the Department of Homeland Security to relocate its headquarters and $300 million so that the government can buy more fuel-efficient vehicles.

Some experts maintain that all the spending is easily justified.

"You're adding $787 billion to the economy that wouldn't otherwise be there," said Stan Collender , a veteran Washington budget analyst.

Critics counter that too much of the stimulus is unfocused. Independent analysts had two other concerns.

First, they said, the stimulus, as well as the fiscal 2009 budget legislation, may not provide the psychological boost the economy needs. The bills are too difficult for the public to grasp, because they have so many ways of stimulating the economy and the aid isn't clearly visible. Then too, the stimulus' costliest tax break, the $400 annual rebate, Bethune said, "is pretty minimal," since it will add only about $13 a week to most paychecks.

The next biggest tax break, a $70 billion patch in the alternative minimum tax, is "a phantom," he said, since it simply wipes off the books an increase that people will never see. Economists agree: That one's not stimulative. Congress passes it every year; Democrats just loaded it into the stimulus bill to get it out of the way.

The other problem involves the view that Washington isn't being fiscally responsible long term by focusing so much on the near term. The CBO warns that while the stimulus should boost the gross domestic product by 1.4 percent to 3.8 percent this year and 1.1 percent to 3.3 percent next year, long-term uncertainties loom.

The CBO projects that the GDP in 2015 and beyond will be as much as 0.2 percent smaller than it would have been without the stimulus package, dragged down by financing all the debt that's being piled up. In addition, noted the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget, a bipartisan fiscal research group, the bill will "have a permanent impact on the deficit through higher interest payments on additional public debt."

As Kenneth Thomas , a lecturer in finance at the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania , put it, "There's going to be collateral damage. But now the goal is just to put out the fire."

 

[pampchefrhondab]

For what it's worth......some quotes of Thomas Jefferson.....

Thank you so much for sharing these quotes Bev. It's amazing how they fit in today, and very spooky. If we don't learn from history we are doomed to repeat it. How sad our Founding Father's would be if they were here today; however, I wish some way we could bring them back.

I go from mad, to sad, to sick about all the spending our government is doing. We would have to spend $1 million a day since the day Jesus was born to pay back the pkg. which just passed - not including interest. Now they want to do another one.

They were talking on the news this morning of how the mortgage relief will just prolong the missery and that nobody is saying there isn't missery out there. But the free market needs to work itself out. They said home sales in California were up 80% in December. It's already starting to work with the drop of housing prices.

If these changes they are making were so great for our economy why isn't the stock market showing it. Actually they gave some interesting stats - On May 6 last year the stock market was over 14,000 - it has dropped almost every day since the day President Obama was the winning nominee. They said a lot of the problem is his dwelling on how bad it is. Even former President Clinton told him he needs to stop how bad he is talking about the economy.

 

[chefsteph07]

He's still talking like he's trying to win the election.

 

[erinb]

If these changes they are making were so great for our economy why isn't the stock market showing it. Actually they gave some interesting stats - On May 6 last year the stock market was over 14,000 - it has dropped almost every day since the day President Obama was the winning nominee. They said a lot of the problem is his dwelling on how bad it is. Even former President Clinton told him he needs to stop how bad he is talking about the economy.

The stock market isn't going to show it right now. Stocks have been horrible for quite some time and it's going to take a while for them to "bounce back", just the same as everything else in the economy.

 

[Jean DeVries]

The thing I find so frustrating about this post is that rather than discuss the merits, or lack thereof of the stimulus plan, weighing the pros and cons, and the possibilities, it is turning into political mudslinging and blame.

Whether you support the current administration or not, it is vastly unfair to blame the current situation on it (or the previous one, for that matter), or to not give ideas and action a chance to work. I suppose if nothing was done, there would be complaints about that also.

Would you appreciate it if someone chose you to be their PC consultant, but their sister who had a different PC consultant came to your show and talked about how all the products sucked and it's probably your fault?

(OK, I know the analogy is weak, but it still works.)

A majority of the vocal people on this board aren't Democrats. We get that. Somebody's gotta win. Somebody's gotta lose. That's how a democracy works. Can we all just get over who won and who lost and talk about the issues at hand?

Flame away......

 

[candiejayne]

Jean for President- next time


well said!

 

[susanr613]

Actually Jean, it took a while before this thread started getting really political...and I'm surprised!

 

[legacypc46]

The stock market is the one indicator that does tend to be immediate. From an investment perspective though, there just isn't enough coming out of Washington right now that coincides with free market principles and thereby generate confidence. (That's a non-partisan observation.)

 

[pampchefrhondab]

I hope President Obama's speach is encouraging tonight. We need a boost.

They said 1.9% of mortgages went into foreclosure in 2008. I don't understand how banks can be doing so bad with this number of foreclosures. They said it's actually mostly concentrated in 5 states (FL, MI, NV, CA, AZ).

They also said many banks went under in the recession of the early 80's. It just was not focused on like the doom and gloom is focused on today. Plus free market was allowed to work.

 

[Jean DeVries]

That's because in the early 80's, national news was only on for 1/2 hour a day, and there wasn't time to "sky is falling, sky is falling" it up because they had to move on to a new topic.

 

[Kelly8]

Well for those of you who are not happy with people getting help with their foreclosures, you might be happy to know that we were just sent a collections notice for $83,000 for our house we had bought, lived in, then had sold, then lost the sale, then rented, and now lost. So we are not getting any help-who knows where all that help is that the news keeps talking about. We haven't seen it here in Michigan and we're one of the worst hit! What's funny is that we had it sold again, the mortgage company "lost" our mortgage, and so we lost the sale and now they're trying to collect on it. Now you tell me how that is our fault!? I called the mortgage company and the lady said that the particular person who is dealing with it won't be in until Monday. I seriously feel bad for her already because she's going to have me to deal with!

 

[Intrepid_Chef]

I don't know if it's too late to inject some logic into this conversation, but here goes ....I talked to a mortgage prevention counselor today ... they said people who think the stimulus will go only to people way behind are mistaken. This funding is for ANYONE who is paying more than 31 percent of their income on their house payment. They will be encouraged to refinance for a 5.15 percent interest loan. They also get credit toward their equity to combat the problem of homes losing value due to foreclosures and the economy in general.Depending on whether this is net or gross income, I may fall into this category.So we are not talking about bailing out irresponsible homeowners. We are talking about helping people who are over their heads and got sucked in by predatory lenders or got hit with balloon payments ... or people who had an income loss and are now over their heads.My 2 cents ... which aren't worth squat due to inflation ....

 

[Jennie4PC]

Kelly, I hope you get that hole situation taken care of. I think I would be ticked if the mortgage company lost the sale in my house.