Mortgage Relief Plan: An Unfair Solution to the Mortgage Crisis

[susanr613]

Jean, I was too lazy to write what you wrote in such detail. Thank you!

 

[erinb]

Well said, Jean, well said

 

[erinb]

Andrea, take your last paragraph and replace the players with brokerage companies, banking industry, and loan officers and you have the same result.

Let's not forget those that qualified for stated income/ stated asset programs and fudged the truth about how much they really made (or didn't).

 

[candiejayne]

Here in our area, anywhere from 65-75% of our tax dollars go towards the schools. We are not hurting big around here with forclosures, nor are we seeing the drop in property values, but my office alone went from an average of 50-60 sales a month to an average of 10 a month in the last few months.

There was just an article in the paper today that John Deere came in this quarter with a 45% loss in profits. That is HUGE for our area because we have 4 plants and the headquarters in this area. If things continue this way for them, we are going to start seeing major job losses, and it's going to be a domino effect. I really don't want to see that happen.

My BF and I are very fortunate right now. He is in the construction business, and after being laid off for 4 months, he is finally back to work. There is no guarentee that it is going to last, but atleast we are doing alright right now. I am also very lucky with my goverment job with seniority over most of my office. If it comes to letting people go, there will be a few before me.

I really feel bad for those that are dealing with job losses, it's got to be so hard.

 

[The_Kitchen_Guy]

Kelly, you're not the (figurative) person that caused the banking failure. The problems began in the late 70's with a bad piece of legislation called the Community Reinvestment Act. It was the first of several more pieces of bad legislation that required banks to make loans to people who had no business buying houses they couldn't afford and taking out mortgages they couldn't repay.

Several watchdogs have been saying for years that the banking industry was on the way to a collapse, but certain politicians, who are still all in play, kept telling us, no, everything is fine, no problems, no need to investigate the banking situation...and six months later, well, you know better than anyone what happened.

 

[ChefBeckyD]

Kelly, you're not the (figurative) person that caused the banking failure. The problems began in the late 70's with a bad piece of legislation called the Community Reinvestment Act. It was the first of several more pieces of bad legislation that required banks to make loans to people who had no business buying houses they couldn't afford and taking out mortgages they couldn't repay.

Several watchdogs have been saying for years that the banking industry was on the way to a collapse, but certain politicians, who are still all in play, kept telling us, no, everything is fine, no problems, no need to investigate the banking situation...and six months later, well, you know better than anyone what happened.

I think this is prophetic...oh, wait, it can't be prophetic, because it already happened. (I've been reading LOST forums too much tonight!)

But I do think that people want to lay the blame on the previous administration, and aren't looking for the REAL cause of what has happened in the past 12 months. It goes back farther than 8 years.

 

[Jean DeVries]

I think this is prophetic...oh, wait, it can't be prophetic, because it already happened. (I've been reading LOST forums too much tonight!)

But I do think that people want to lay the blame on the previous administration, and aren't looking for the REAL cause of what has happened in the past 12 months. It goes back farther than 8 years.

While they can't be blamed for causing it, they can be blamed for ignoring it.

Like all those before it.

 

[candiejayne]

I wasn't born until the 80's, and I don't remember things, and I know I'm under-educated on things before the last 10 years. Anyone have any websites with information or anything I can read up on to try to educate myself more with this?

 

[vonfirmath]

As I understand it, from reading Searchlight Crusade, most people go out there and buy the most house they can. Most people, buying houses, do not consider that at any time they could lose their job and therefore, not just live within their means, but below their means, with emergency funds to help with keeping the roof over the head in those times, etc.

Also, so far as I can tell, most people think living within your means means being able to afford all the payments on your vehicles, your credit cards, etc. without going into debt more. Not necessarily having no debt whatsoever.

And having that debt also makes it much more difficult to live when you lose a job/have to downgrade to a different job with less pay.

So while loan officers, etc. may have been misleading people, I still have to put the large part of blame on the person who bought the house. When you are spending $100K plus, it seems to me its time to know an awful lot more before you invest your money and not just nod your head and believe whatever you are told. (Often, what you want to hear, as well)

I didn't know everything I needed to buying my first place, but I got a pre-approval for $X and didn't even tell the realtor what that X was -- I even got them to write the pre-approval for the number that caused the payment I wanted (And luckily I did not get messed up with the loans with changing interest rates because I was conservative enough I wanted nothing weird that I could not understand) and thus the realtor never got the chance to show me stuff much over what my desired number was. (And Searchlight Crusade says if a realtor once shows you something over what you have told them your budget is, that should be a red light to run Far Away from them)

Anyway, here's what Searchlight has to say about the "Help for Homeowners" provision.
http://www.searchlightcrusade.net/2009/02/barack_obamas_help_for_homeown.html

 

[debbieskitchenhelper]

The same way with us,,,, my dh is probably going to get laid off next week. Over 500 or more are going to be laid off,, and probably for good. He has been with the company for 34 years and is probably going to lose his job. We are paying on our home which is a simple rancher. And the lady at the bank said,, it is just a house, you can start over if you lose it.. We,. this is not just a house. it is our home. I have no idea what is going to happen but I will tell you one thing. I will do everything within my and his not to lose our home. So if the govenment can help,, I sure in the heck hope so. There are alot of good hard working people out there, through no fault of their own that need help. And by darn it,. I hope everyone who needs it gets the help they need. Someone made the statement , they they pay their bills on time,, well that is great. But there are alot of people that would love to, if they were able to do so. I got so hot , when I started reading this column. Good people need help right now. God help us all who do.

 

[pampered1224]

I am going to say only a few things here. Don't continue this thread. We all know how these things turn out and this one is dangerous. Too many people can get hurt here. I beg you to not continue this one.

 

[Shawnna]

A lot of the problem I see is that children...young men and women...move out of their parents homes, get married...some don't...and then expect to have everything their parents now have...a nice house, a new car, great clothes, etc...nevermind that it took their parents years and years to build up to what they have now. Our parents started out in old run down homes...renting not buying...going to the laundry-mat, driving an old car eating bologna, casseroles, etc. They didn't start their married life with a big fancy house, 2 new cars, all top of the line appliances and eating out or eating steak at home. Lenders give these kids these loans...and credit card companies start hounding kids before they get out of high school with fantastic offers.

But, this so called stimulus package is a joke. The majority of the money is not going to improve the economy or create jobs...its going to overseas, its going to furnish contraceptives to our kids. Stupid stuff.

Yes, there are genuine people who need help...the same with the welfare system. But, like the current welfare system, it is going to be helping a lot of people who could get off their lazy butts and get a job and work hard like we do. I think this is going to be just like the current welfare system and that stinks. People in my area who do not work 1 day a year make more money on welfare than my family does working 6 days a week 10-15 hours a day. And then, when tax time comes around they get bigger refunds than we do because they spend the year getting my hard earned dollars and then they get it again at tax time.

I have not seen the welfare system work 1 time for a family who really needs assistance. As a matter of fact those people who work hard and fall on hard times for whatever reason are usually turned down for assistance at the time they need it. I think these bail-out packages are going to work the same way.

As I stated...there are families who need this and if those were the people who were going to get it I would be extremely happy. I just don't see it happening that way.

 

[The_Kitchen_Guy]

While they can't be blamed for causing it, they can be blamed for ignoring it.

Like all those before it.

The previous administration did NOT ignore it. The watchdogs were all pooh-poohed by a group led by Barney Frank, who told us there was no danger, no problem, nothing to worry about. As James Thurber used to say, you could look it up.

 

[christinaspc]

All I can say is wow.... this thread is something for sure. I agree with some of the things about all the hand outs given to the people who need it the most, and then their are those who just live off of it cause for some reason they do for themselves. I am glad for this home mortage deal to go through cause maybe my brother wont lose his house and my newphews wouldn't have to move in with either my mother or me not saying I wouldn't open the door cause I would. But some people do make the wrong choices and my brothers case he married the wrong person and he is playing cleaning from the heck it whirl wind of the after math of everything that has happened to him this year between getting devoirced not by his choice, and then losing his job. The only hand out he has taken is the christmas presents Julie and her pc mates supplied him with and he was ever so grateful he didn't and nor did I all I asked was just for pray for him and his boys..... I am sorry but yes this thread did offend me for some of the things that were said and I guess if you haven't experienced some of the things I am seeing 1st hand with my brother or going through it for yourself. You shouldn't judge those people who have gotten the hand-outs. I do feel if the 1st time around president would of given the people who had troubled mortages.... the money instead of the bank it would of probably been avoided who is to say. I am sorry if you or others find my post off base rude, or whatever but this hit me the wrong way on so many levels. I do hope this thread gets closed.

 

[Jean DeVries]

I could, but that's what I have you for

In my own happy little world, anyone who appears on television behind a podium, in front of a senate committee hearing, at an impeachment trial, or in a bathroom in the Minneapolis airport, is part of the administration.

 

[Jean DeVries]

And I think it would be a sad commentary on all of us if the thread did get closed.

We're grown adults (some of us reluctantly), and healthy debate is good for the soul. Seeing other points of view is how we grow...either by being exposed to another perspective, or by strengthening our opinions and challenging us to defend them in a deeper or better way.

No one has flung poo at anyone else yet, or specifically derided anyone on this topic. No one has insulted anyone's intelligence, or blamed anyone specifically for whatever troubles they may be in. That would be nearly impossible, since none of us walk in each other's shoes enough to make any sort of judgement call on their lives, right?

I think if this topic degenerated into people calling other degenerates, or in some way personalizing it and specifically calling someone irresponsible or lazy or whatever, then yes, we should all get a time-out and get sent back to our respective corners to think about what we've done.

Unfortunately, some people have opinions, and other people can be sensitive to those opinions because of their life circumstances at that point. Not talking about those opinions and sensitivities won't help us to understand each other as people and bring about world peace.

Sorry. It's late.

I'm taking my bleeding liberal heart and going to bed. Peace out all y'all!

 

[BethCooks4U]

The welfare system was set up to get rid of poverty in America but people took advantage of it and became a way of life for many. The "powers that be" were negligent in letting that happen and it needs to be fixed. Tommy Thompson (WI Govenor) did a lot to help change that with his Welfare to Work program. We need more of that.

But that system is not what got us in this mess. GREED got us in this mess. To get more money, loans were sold over and over with no security and the people at the top of companies decided they were entitled. They get obscene bonuses even when the company fails. Lay off some people to make that profit or to keep the company afloat but by no means defer my bonus. Comments have been made that by saying companies that get government help can't give those bonuses is dumbing down the industry. Please. They did not reach their objectives. They need the people's money. They don't DESERVE the bonus. If I don't do my job, if I fail at my objectives, I LOSE my job and there ain't no bonus. How do they deserve it? Because they were born into money? The class system is alive and well in America and the middle class is being pushed back down to where we deserve to be. Give the tax breaks to the rich so they can trickle down the money to the masses, yeah, we've seen how that works.

The people with the big bucks run the politicians - they give a donation and the politician gives them the favors. It's a big circle and the guy in the middle who works hard is the one who ends up with nothing and no help. The guy at the top still gets his bonus welfare and the guy at the bottom gets his welfare. We get screwed.

People did buy over their heads but be fair, many of them were told they could afford it by "professionals" who "knew" what they were talking about. Sure, the people should have known they couldn't really afford some of what they bought but they don't deserve to be crucified for it. (Fortunately, we personally never bought into that and while we were in debt for a while it was because of a lay off and we pulled ourselves back out.)

I am tired of the "the other side is wrong" attitude. They (our government and business professionals - those getting all those big bucks for making the decisions that affect my money) need to stop thinking of their own wallets and fix this mess. The first step it to eliminate those bonuses and use that money to help the people that are losing everything.

You know, it's not that people are being layed off - lay offs cycle all the time. I remember in the 80's when the local factories laid off and it trickled to other businesses including the hospital I worked at - I was a nurse and I was laid off too. The thing is that now it's how MANY people it effects and something must be done or we'll be back to how things were in the 30's. Most of us have no idea. The current administration did not create this mess but at least they are trying. Congress needs to realize that they must work together - neither side should get all they want but they need to do what's right by the people. My vote counts and I will vote for change that works.

 

[candiejayne]

My vote counts and I will vote for change that works.

I love that sentence!

 

[Jean DeVries]

Experts say Obama's foreclosure fix will work - Feb. 18, 2009

 

[candiejayne]

I have to go get ready for work, I started reading it, but I don't have time to finish, nor time to respond too. Thanks for posting though, I will be following up with it when I have more time!

 

[pampchefrhondab]

Those who take offense to my post, please understand I HAVE BEEN THERE. I lost 40% of my income over 7 years ago after 17 years with the company I worked for. My bills were based on what we made. I'm still paying the price, but I can pay my bills. I just don't think the government should come and bail me out on the backs of others or future generations - my kids and grandkids.

We just keep slowing down the inevitable in this country - which has been going on since the Carter administration. We need to just let the chips fall where they may and let the free market adjust. It will be hell on earth for a while, but it's coming anyway. We can't keep borrowing from Peter to pay Paul!

If you all think things are bad now, just wait until the inflation hits from all this debt we are taking on. If you thought the late 70's and early 80's were bad (I know some of you don't remember), you haven't seen anything yet. We will have to up the interest we pay to foreign countries in order to get them to buy our bonds. And God help us if foreign countries stop buying our bonds all together!

I understand some like to blame the banks, realtors, etc. Where is the responsibility of people reading their contracts before they sign them. If they don't understand, hire an attorney to explain it to you! They are spending thousands of dollars over 30 years - good grief! They just had a single mother as an example on CBS this morning. She purchased a house for $560,000! Come on, how did she ever think she could afford that! I live in a small ranch house. If anything ever happend to my husband I have always said I would live in an apartment. I would not try to stay in my home! I know I can't handle it on my own.

I agree it's greed, but greed on many in this country. When is enough enough. I watch HGTV like Property Virgins and these people say things like, the appliances are old, they aren't SS, etc. I agree people today want what their parents have as soon as they are out of the house - even more then their parents have actually! Luckily I have had examples in my own family for my children to see mistakes they have made. We have tried to tell them to spend within their means. Hopefully they will listen to us.

My husband and I also could have been a statistic and lost our house several times. First time would have been the first year we moved in. He had been with his company for 2 years and always worked over time. When we went to get our mortgage we could have based the loan on his two-years pay average, but we didn't. We based it on 40 hours a week - we figured he would at least work that. The week after we closed on our house he was cut back to 32 hours a week! This lasted for 2 1/2 years! Luckily we didn't listen to the bank. We had a cushion built in and we survived. Oh, and I forgot to mention I was also pregnant for our first child when we moved in as well! We found out a week later! There have been other bumps, like me losing my job.

We purchased a small ranch home, would have loved to move into something bigger after having 3 kids, but we didn't. We would have loved to have at least a basement on the house, but we couldn't afford the extra money on the mortgage! We have lived within our means.

I know there are many who have been in their house for a lot of years. They probably are the ones who need help, unfortunately they probably will not qualify. It's only those who purchased way above their means that will get help.

 

[legacypc46]

My thoughts, for what they are worth .

People who took a mortgage and fudged anywhere on the application (regardless of what the broker told them), shouldn't get one penny of our tax dollars.

Brokers who did not execute verification of the applicant's stated income (ie. did the old 'wink-wink'), should face civil suit to recoup the commissions earned...the practice was grossly negligient. Same with loans approved when the total mortgage-related payments exceeded 28% of income. Use any recouped commissions to help fund mortgage assistance for those in a legitimate crisis (ie. job loss).

Bank CEOs who allowed their instutitions to then buy and sell these type of loans, should be personally sued for gross negligence. And if there are legal grounds for criminal prosecution due to reckless endangerment...go for it.

Members of congress (on both sides) need to own up to the fact they directly contributed to this fiasco by allowing Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae to underwrite loans for which applicants were truly unqualified...backed by our tax dollars. (Especially Mr Franks, since that fell under his committee's purview.) Let's return to the ethic of taking responsibilty.

Use pre-bubble prices to determine equitable home value for underwater mortgages. For example, we built our home under 2003 prices...had we built it just three years later, it probably would have cost at least an extra $200,000 due to the speculation-driven market. I admit this begs the secondary question of what becomes of the difference...and may cause some banks to go bankrupt...but some banks won't, and new ones will open for business. [I'm probably being a little naive and simplistic, but propping up over-inflated mortgages with our tax dollars isn't the answer either.]

Two thoughts for the top guy: tune in to the Dave Ramsey show and govern from your home office more (the estimated cost for Air Force One runs between $40K and $60K per hour...our tax dollars.)

 

[AnnieBee]

Two thoughts for the top guy: tune in to the Dave Ramsey show and govern from your home office more (the estimated cost for Air Force One runs between $40K and $60K per hour...our tax dollars.)

Love this. DH was wondering why he had to fly to Denver and the AZ to sign some papers... And please, I'm not saying that no other president has not made unnecessary travel, just that shouldn't we ALL be tightening our belts, starting at the top?

 

[ChefBeckyD]

My thoughts, for what they are worth .

People who took a mortgage and fudged anywhere on the application (regardless of what the broker told them), shouldn't get one penny of our tax dollars.

Brokers who did not execute verification of the applicant's stated income (ie. did the old 'wink-wink'), should face civil suit to recoup the commissions earned...the practice was grossly negligient. Same with loans approved when the total mortgage-related payments exceeded 28% of income. Use any recouped commissions to help fund mortgage assistance for those in a legitimate crisis (ie. job loss).

Bank CEOs who allowed their instutitions to then buy and sell these type of loans, should be personally sued for gross negligence. And if there are legal grounds for criminal prosecution due to reckless endangerment...go for it.

Members of congress (on both sides) need to own up to the fact they directly contributed to this fiasco by allowing Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae to underwrite loans for which applicants were truly unqualified...backed by our tax dollars. (Especially Mr Franks, since that fell under his committee's purview.) Let's return to the ethic of taking responsibilty.

Use pre-bubble prices to determine equitable home value for underwater mortgages. For example, we built our home under 2003 prices...had we built it just three years later, it probably would have cost at least an extra $200,000 due to the speculation-driven market. I admit this begs the secondary question of what becomes of the difference...and may cause some banks to go bankrupt...but some banks won't, and new ones will open for business. [I'm probably being a little naive and simplistic, but propping up over-inflated mortgages with our tax dollars isn't the answer either.]

Two thoughts for the top guy: tune in to the Dave Ramsey show and govern from your home office more (the estimated cost for Air Force One runs between $40K and $60K per hour...our tax dollars.)

Sure wish they'd ask for your ideas about a recovery plan!:thumbup:

 

[Jean DeVries]

My thoughts, for what they are worth .

People who took a mortgage and fudged anywhere on the application (regardless of what the broker told them), shouldn't get one penny of our tax dollars.

Brokers who did not execute verification of the applicant's stated income (ie. did the old 'wink-wink'), should face civil suit to recoup the commissions earned...the practice was grossly negligient. Same with loans approved when the total mortgage-related payments exceeded 28% of income. Use any recouped commissions to help fund mortgage assistance for those in a legitimate crisis (ie. job loss).

Bank CEOs who allowed their instutitions to then buy and sell these type of loans, should be personally sued for gross negligence. And if there are legal grounds for criminal prosecution due to reckless endangerment...go for it.

Members of congress (on both sides) need to own up to the fact they directly contributed to this fiasco by allowing Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae to underwrite loans for which applicants were truly unqualified...backed by our tax dollars. (Especially Mr Franks, since that fell under his committee's purview.) Let's return to the ethic of taking responsibilty.

Use pre-bubble prices to determine equitable home value for underwater mortgages. For example, we built our home under 2003 prices...had we built it just three years later, it probably would have cost at least an extra $200,000 due to the speculation-driven market. I admit this begs the secondary question of what becomes of the difference...and may cause some banks to go bankrupt...but some banks won't, and new ones will open for business. [I'm probably being a little naive and simplistic, but propping up over-inflated mortgages with our tax dollars isn't the answer either.]

Two thoughts for the top guy: tune in to the Dave Ramsey show and govern from your home office more (the estimated cost for Air Force One runs between $40K and $60K per hour...our tax dollars.)

Here here.

(Well, except for the Air Force One thing....I don't want the leader of the free world flying commercial. Mostly because I don't want to be on a plane that gets taken down by some kookoo because the president is on it. And the security screening is already laborious enough...I don't want to add extra time for me just because the president is on board my plane. Yes, as a matter of fact, it IS all about me

 

[ChefBeckyD]

Here here.

(Well, except for the Air Force One thing....I don't want the leader of the free world flying commercial. Mostly because I don't want to be on a plane that gets taken down by some kookoo because the president is on it. And the security screening is already laborious enough...I don't want to add extra time for me just because the president is on board my plane. Yes, as a matter of fact, it IS all about me

She didn't say for him to fly commercial - just to govern from his home office more.
Example in Annabel's post of flying to Denver just to sign a bill. $60,000 for a good photo opp?

 

[jrodeo]

So, some are suggesting that if you have been "pressured" into buying something that you couldn't afford, that I should end up having to pay for it? How many of you have been on a car lot and felt pressure to buy a car you really couldn't afford? Are you suggesting that I should have to pay for you who were "coerced" into buying a new car? Well, a house is no different, just a higher price tag. Where do you draw the line? Do you want me to bail out your hum-v purchase too?

As KG stated in a previous post the banks/lenders were forced to make loans to people who shouldn't have gotten them. Then there were the "salespeople" in the middle who were gleeful about this decision. I know personally someone who made a lot of money off these bad loans. He was a middle guy. He's destitute now. So, see, it all works out if you just let the markets take care of themselves. Oh, I forgot, that can't happen now, can it?

This is not directed at anyone on this site, I am just so upset about the bailout and the possibility that my daughter will not ever see the great country I saw. My parents' generation was truly the "greatest generation" and I didn't realize until now the truth of that. The hippies are bringing us all down to their commune-style of living. I am so sad. I really didn't think this would ever happen, but it has.

 

[chefsteph07]

This is what I have been saying throughout this thread about being "approved" for something and knowing if you can actually pay for it.
I don't think keeping up w/ the Joneses is worth all this.

 

[Jean DeVries]

She didn't say for him to fly commercial - just to govern from his home office more.
Example in Annabel's post of flying to Denver just to sign a bill. $60,000 for a good photo opp?

But then it can't be all about me

I know what Annabel was saying. I just would rather have the Pentagon spending $185 million a year (a paltry sum compared to what the banks and car companies have been given) on keeping the president (regardless of who he/she is and what party he/she represents) alive than using it on guns and bombs and other destructive toys. Because, let's face it, they ain't giving it back if they're not spending it, they'll just redirect it somewhere else (I hadn't put anything in parenthesis for at least a sentence, so I'm throwing this in here to keep my streak alive.....)

The fact of the matter is, when the money was all given to the fat cats on Wall Steet and the mismanagement in Detroit, people screamed "Where's the help for Main Street?" Now Main Street is getting some relief, and we're still not happy. I'm glad I'm not in charge, there's no making us happy

Those who pay their bills on time will never get relief. That's the reality. We'll just have to settle for our own personal satisfaction. I mean, really, if I heard on the news that "People who are paying their bills on time, or are being responsible with spending are receiving a bailout" I would seriously have to question the sanity of those in charge for wasting my hard earned tax dollars.

Wait. I already do question their sanity. Not because of decisions they made, but because they volunteered, nay, FOUGHT for the impossible job.

I say, rather than criticize or laud any single decision made, or automatically doom future generations to a vast wasteland that used to be our cozy little country, we wait it out and see how it all ends up in the big picture. It didn't take us 8 weeks to get here (or 8 years, Becky, before you jump , it certainly isn't going to be 'fixed' or 'doomed' by one stimulus package to homeowners. Patience my friends. As a wise woman on this board says in her siggy, "Everything will be OK in the end. If it's not OK, it's not the end."

I'm gonna reserve final judgement for someday in the distant future.

Now I'm gonna take my liberal, bleeding heart out to Mr. Burger for an olive burger (THANKS BECKY!)

 

[ChefBeckyD]

But then it can't be all about me

I know what Annabel was saying. I just would rather have the Pentagon spending $185 million a year (a paltry sum compared to what the banks and car companies have been given) on keeping the president (regardless of who he/she is and what party he/she represents) alive than using it on guns and bombs and other destructive toys. Because, let's face it, they ain't giving it back if they're not spending it, they'll just redirect it somewhere else (I hadn't put anything in parenthesis for at least a sentence, so I'm throwing this in here to keep my streak alive.....)

The fact of the matter is, when the money was all given to the fat cats on Wall Steet and the mismanagement in Detroit, people screamed "Where's the help for Main Street?" Now Main Street is getting some relief, and we're still not happy. I'm glad I'm not in charge, there's no making us happy

Those who pay their bills on time will never get relief. That's the reality. We'll just have to settle for our own personal satisfaction. I mean, really, if I heard on the news that "People who are paying their bills on time, or are being responsible with spending are receiving a bailout" I would seriously have to question the sanity of those in charge for wasting my hard earned tax dollars.

Wait. I already do question their sanity. Not because of decisions they made, but because they volunteered, nay, FOUGHT for the impossible job.

I say, rather than criticize or laud any single decision made, or automatically doom future generations to a vast wasteland that used to be our cozy little country, we wait it out and see how it all ends up in the big picture. It didn't take us 8 weeks to get here (or 8 years, Becky, before you jump , it certainly isn't going to be 'fixed' or 'doomed' by one stimulus package to homeowners. Patience my friends. As a wise woman on this board says in her siggy, "Everything will be OK in the end. If it's not OK, it's not the end."

I'm gonna reserve final judgement for someday in the distant future.

Now I'm gonna take my liberal, bleeding heart out to Mr. Burger for an olive burger (THANKS BECKY!)

Make sure and get onion rings with that!:chef: