Mortgage Relief Plan: An Unfair Solution to the Mortgage Crisis

[pampchefrhondab]

I don't know about the rest of you, but I am so mad about the mortgage bail out:grumpy:!

I know some on here might need some help like a lot of people around the country, but I don't see this as a fair plan to the rest of us who have paid our mortgage on time!

Before you get mad at me let me tell you I lost my job over 7 years ago. My income was over 40% of our total monthly income. Where was my bail out? I had to sacrafice, spend all my retirement savings, and work my butt off to save my house!

It is just not right.

 

[ChefBeckyD]

Completely agree.


Handouts are going to be the norm now, though. (and the rest of us will be footing the bill.:grumpy

 

[Fluffy215]

And I am sorry but why is this stimilus money going to people who bought things they couldn't afford? I rent and pay all my bills on time and yet what do I get? $13 a week extra in my paycheck? Are you serious? With the price of food these days that will not get me far Our insurance just went up $10 a week so we gained nada For just me and my dh we pay $90 a week!!!!!! His employer doesn't have an employee and spouse just family so we pay as if we had kids and that is not fair to us either. I think the government should bail us all out and just tell all the banking institutions all debt owned is null and void and we get to start from scratch LOL After all it is our money bailing them out too LOL This way it's fair to all, wether you owe on a car, home, or even credit cards just wipe it all out and start over LOL Man wouldn't that be nice? LOL

 

[jrstephens]

I agree!! I am tired of people that made bad decisions getting "bailed out" while those of us that try our best to make good decisions pay for their mistakes and do not reap the benfits of it. Plus, knowing the taxation this is going to cost my kids and grandkids terrifies me.

That is if God has not taken us to Heaven by then!:angel:

 

[chefsteph07]

This stimulus gets us one step closer to being a socialist nation.

The gov't will have their hands in everything we do.

I am SICK of the ENTITLEMENT attitude of this country! SICK OF IT.

Whatever happened to making due for yourself and your family and maybe starting a business of your own? People are so panicked about "the economy", but frankly, my PC business has never been better.

My parents were BOTH self employed, started their own business, and we made it growing up pretty successfully. If more people would stop depending on unemployment and handouts, this country would be in alot better shape. If you are on unemployment, go back to school and use that time you are off wisely to get ahead in life.

How many more "stimuluses" are there going to be for this country??

 

[heather223]

I agree with all of you

 

[chefsteph07]

I know it might be shocking to hear, but if you couldn't afford your house when you bought it, guess what happens? Are all carbuyers going to get a car bailout because they can't afford their car pmt? Usually when you don't pay your car payment it gets REPO'd...Same as your house.

What's so hard about that??

 

[Jennie4PC]

you know it isnt only us that have to pay it back. It is our kids. So my 7 yr 5 yr old and 2 1/2 yr old will be paying for this also

 

[pamperedlinda]

I can understand how some people get in over their head with a house that is too much for them. I too could have been one of those people. Ten years ago, before I met DH, I bought my own house. I was single, a first time home-buyer, I had a great income and an excellent credit rating. I was approved for more house than I was looking for. When my Real Estate agent found out what I was approved for, all he would show me were houses that cost @ 10-20K more than that - because he said we would "talk them down to my price". I was naive and went with what he said. I got a great house on a large lot. I could handle the payments - but I wasn't really prepared for all the other misc. expenses that come with it. I met DH soon afterward and sold my house - at a small loss b/c I hadn't owned it long enough to build-up any equity as the bank had qualified me for the first-time home-buyer program...a 97% loan with no PMI. I was naive, I didn't know the questions to ask, and no one offered more details. Luckily, I didn't turn into a statistic. I agree that many people got themselves into this mess, but many of them were mislead, misinformed and used by both the realtor and the loan officer so that they could get their commissions.

 

[The_Kitchen_Guy]

You wanted change? You got it.I tried to tell you not to vote for change, because the change wouldn't be what you wanted. I also said change would be all that's left of your paycheck.You think it's bad now, wait a year.Oh, and if you live in Wisconsin...grab your ankles and brace yourself. Everything that the Porkulus Bill is supposed to give you is about to be taken away by Diamond Jim Doyle and his cronies.

 

[susanr613]

at the risk of being flamed....

first, no one likes to pick up someone else's mess, including me. Unfortunately, this mess is so widespread and so deep into our economic structure, that not even the Cat in the Hat could pick up it all. The fact that so many homeowners cannot make their current payments impacts way beyond themselves - their banks, which support the local economy by employing people and lending $ to everyone, the local stores, and the suppliers to the local stores, etc. If the situation is allowed to continue, we will all be affected, perhaps to the same degree as we will be affected by this plan.

The proposed plan is not a get out of jail free card for everyone who can't make their payment. The goal of the plan is to keep money in motion by adjusting rates and payments for people who meet certain criteria and whose houses still have value. It's not perfect, but it will keep some money in the economy, which we really need now.

I'm angry at the people with the big bucks - the financial people who let loose lots of unsecured credit, the government that turned a blind eye to all the fooling around, and the banks that greedily loaned money to people who had a slim to none chance of repayment. As usual, you and I have to pay for those mistakes, no matter who is in charge in DC.

 

[chefsteph07]

Susan, I don't think you are gonna get flamed, what you said makes sense...BUT, I don't know if THIS is the answer either. And, it's not just gov't that is at fault, many many many people and companies had their hand in this mess too.
It's just a sad unfortunate mess

 

[chefsteph07]

You wanted change? You got it.

I tried to tell you not to vote for change, because the change wouldn't be what you wanted. I also said change would be all that's left of your paycheck.

You think it's bad now, wait a year.

Oh, and if you live in Wisconsin...grab your ankles and brace yourself. Everything that the Porkulus Bill is supposed to give you is about to be taken away by Diamond Jim Doyle and his cronies.

I didn't vote for change! I voted for country first! LOL

 

[chefsteph07]

you know it isnt only us that have to pay it back. It is our kids. So my 7 yr 5 yr old and 2 1/2 yr old will be paying for this also

And their kids

 

[susanr613]

Susan, I don't think you are gonna get flamed, what you said makes sense...BUT, I don't know if THIS is the answer either. And, it's not just gov't that is at fault, many many many people and companies had their hand in this mess too.
It's just a sad unfortunate mess

\\

I don't think there is any one answer either ...both the former and current Administrations have been and are trying different strategies. I just wanted to point out that the plan is not designed to bail out everyone who overextended or had their life interrupted otherwise.

I am happy for those of you whose PC business is going great. I was talking with one of my catalog hosts today and she said that the people who usually buy are not this time, because at least one spouse is out of work. This is in a fairly nice area of the Chicago burbs. I have another catty show with no orders after 2 weeks, and I have noticed sales and bookings down from last year. I thank God I don't depend on PC for my primary costs, and that if need be I could get by without it.

Sorry for the little pity party here....back to the matter at hand.

 

[chefsteph07]

No pity party from you, you are just stating the facts of what's going on in your area right now, I guess now is when you start to get creative w/ bookings?
I started making calls tonight hoping to get a booking on and I got no one at home, or 'call me in the summer"..so..I know what you mean, so far I am having a kick butt couple of months, but I usually get a lull. It's the cycle, you will pick up again!

 

[Kelly8]

Wow! Normally, I don't get too offended by the posts on this site, but this one really did! I understand totally where everyone is coming from in thinking that there is a problem with people buying things they can't afford. My hubby and I are in the mortgage problem. The reason why I am so offended is because we could afford our house when we BUILT it! My husband had an AWESOME job. In fact, I was going to school full-time (student teaching at that), and we were building a house, saving money and traveling! We were doing very well. Then the company he worked for got sued by the union. The company had a choice. They could either pay up the wazoo for every worker they had working for them or rejoin the union. They chose to rejoin the union. Unfortunately, they couldn't afford all the union benefits (we had benefits under the company pre-union, too). So the owner sold out to another guy. This guy decided to quit paying a couple of workers. We went to the union to try to work this out, and they told us that because we didn't pay the dues, they couldn't help us. Their lazy butts couldn't see that we couldn't afford to pay the dues because my hubby hadn't gotten a paycheck. We had another home we were renting. It was our first home that was a dump that we bought extremely cheap then fixed up. How did we know so many years ago that the housing market would crash? Well, we had a short sale on it, and the mortgage company "lost" our file. It just turned up in Massachusetts! I went to school for teaching. Michigan right now has the highest unemployment rate in the nation (over 10%) and the schools are even cutting back on substitute teaching. We are scraping to get through this crisis. So, if it means the government can help us out after they signed that stupid NAFTA agreement which heavily hurt Michigan, then by all means help me out. I just wish that people would realize that there is a gray area out there. Again, we were doing quite well, and we are very smart with our money, but we got hurt.

 

[Kelly8]

Just one more thing...our government has been helping people for decades with handouts (welfare, food stamps, medicaid, etc). That's very frustrating to me. My husband and I have put off having a family until we feel more financially secure to have children, yet there are many people out there who have kids that can't afford them that taxpayers end up paying for. So I guess if they're going to help people now who truly deserve the help, then they should. Maybe they should cut off the people who have been getting help for years for doing nothing and give that money to people who just need a little push right now and then get back on their feet.

 

[susanr613]

Kelly, I am sorry if you are offended by the posts. I think part of what you are seeing is the straw that is breaking the camel's back with regards to handouts.

 

[Kelly8]

I might be, but I wish people would realize that some of us aren't asking for handouts. It seems like we are being classified with everyone else that doesn't want to work. My husband and I would rather not take a handout. And hopefully we won't have to. I know my sis bought a house that they could afford too. Her hubby works for American Axle. If you watch the news, all their jobs are going to Mexico, so they are on pins and needles. This situation isn't just about people buying stuff they can't afford. And the government is trying to do everything it can to avoid a depression. Thank you very much for the post though. That was very nice!

 

[chefsteph07]

Kelly, I"m sorry you are going through what you are going through...no one is really safe from the crunch of what is going on job wise...

YOU were very wise w/ your money and still got burned, I think you are not the majority of what is happening. I think alot of people saw a house that they KNEW maybe in the back of their mind they couldn't afford, but went ahead and purchased it.

Sorry you are offended by the post...but you see others frustrations I"m sure, and you even mentioned it yourself about welfare, handouts, etc.
Those programs were designed to be a temporary help to those in most need, and alot of people use it as a way of life, and not to better themselves.
Same w the bank bailout. It was a handout, and they still did with it what THEY wanted in the form of bonuses to the employees, etc.

Like I said before, it's just a really sad unfortunate situation. My prayers are with you and all the other families being forced out of their homes.

 

[Jennie4PC]

Kelly
For some people it is not their fault that they are behind/losing thier house. I just read a little about it and if it is going to help people out that have honestly been trying to pay their mortgage due to job loss. Then I am fine with it. Yes my kids will have to pay when they start paying their taxes but this isnt the only thing they will be paying for. It is a never ending cycle. Right know we are very fortunate that we live in an area not really hit to hard by this economy problem since we are in a Gold mining town. Our housing prices are still high and I am very fortunate that we bought in the middle of our housing boom.

 

[pampchefrhondab]

KG - Well I didn't vote for change - but you could probably already guessed that from my post!

Kelly, I'm sorry if you are offended, but I mean what I said. The govt. should not be bailing people out besides unemployment benefits which are already given. As I said before, I lost my job too. It's been very hard for us to hang on to everything we have. We were actually seeing a light at the end of the tunnel and my husband lost his job in Nov. We were planning on selling - or letting the bank take the house (we have equity) and moving in with family, an apartment or trailer. By the grace of God he found a job. It's not been easy, he now works 80 hours a week w/no overtime.

I see all of this as the USA becoming socialist. It is not what our Founding Fathers wanted. Actually they didn't want any social programs from taxes. These programs should be handled through family and churches.

These are just my opinions, and I can understand when you're in the situation you are you might feel differently.

 

[candiejayne]

I voted for change, and I believe that change is what will come out of all of this. Everyone just needs to give it a chance. Susan is right, these "handouts" as you all are calling them don't only affect the persons getting them, but the ecomonmy as a whole.

I also agree with what Linda said about first time homebuyers. In our area, our realtors and loan officers are out there to make a buck. They don't care what people can really afford, they only care about getting the best commissions possible. My BFs cousin recently looked into building a house. She sat down looked at everything and figured up they could afford about $150,000 total. The bank approved her for $200,000 and her husband for an additional $150,000 based on their incomes. I'm glad she used her head and not what the bank told her she could afford.

Have any of you ever watched property virgins on HGTV? That show is a joke to me. If the bank approves the person for $X, they take what they have for a down payment, add it to the $X and then even show them housed out of that range.

 

[erinb]

The good thing is the fact that this is not for those with no income. This is for those that can prove that they can still pay the mortgage back (with the modifications to the loan).

 

[candiejayne]

Very good point Erin.

 

[chefsteph07]

This is the thing though, if people are LOGICAL about what they KNOW they can afford, this wouldn't be happening to alot of people. It wouldn't matter what a loan officer or whover told ME I can afford, they don't know our family situation and what we feel comfortable with. My husband and I are in charge of our family, not any bank. The idea that a bank could say, "oh yeah, your house payment would only be this and I know based on your salary you can afford this..."..I doubt it! Being "approved" for a certain amt and being able to "afford" it are 2 very different things.

Case in point, we just bought a car in Dec and I had a SET amt that I knew I wanted for a car payment. The dealer at first went over by about $30, I told him flat out no, I knew our ins was going to go up w/ a new car, and to some $30 might not be a big deal, but I was firm on what I could afford for us. In the end, I got what I wanted. I KNEW what we could spend.

 

[candiejayne]

I agree with what you say, but at the same time, people don't think logically or are easily persuaded. I work for a property tax office and I hear it all of the time. A lot of times I get calls because the realtors didn't tell them what the real taxes on the house was. They didn't do their homework, and when it came time to pay the taxes, they hadn't even prepared themselves with them.

I had a lady call last week crying because her monthly house payment was going up $500 a month. She bought a house from a senior citizen. At that time the taxes were only $400 a month because of the exemptions the prior owner was receiving. Last May when the taxes became due ($2400) the bank had not escrowed enough money, and did not make an adjustment to her monthly payment at that time. Now, they are wanting an extra $500 a month to cover the $2000 she was short last year, plus the $2000 she will be short this May also.

Who is really at fault. My feelings are everyone involved. The realtor should have known and expressed the increase to the new owners. The new owners should have done their homework and found out what their taxes would be. The bank because they did not try to correct this error a year ago.

 

[Jean DeVries]

While I'm not in favor of bailing out the irresponsible, it seems to me this:

People who bought houses they couldn't afford would still not be able to afford them now, recession or not. While they have contributed to the housing/financial crisis, they're not entire reason for it. If they were, there would have been a "crisis" all along.

There are millions of people who purchased their homes during the economic boom - people who never in a million years thought they would lose their jobs. Many of these are people who were living within their means.

Then their means changed. They are now unemployed, and new jobs for them to get aren't there.

Foreclosures hurt everyone. Obviously, the homeowners are left without decent housing. And lawd knows this country isn't capable of dealing with people who are homeless or in substandard housing very well. This reliance on some sort of public housing or public assistance drains "the system" and uses money that could be put toward other services for everyone else.

It impacts neighborhoods. The value of my house has dropped 20% in the last year, mainly due to the foreclosures in my neighborhood and the prices that the homes sell for now. When home values drop, property taxes drop. While property owners may think that's a good thing, very few cities can run on less money these days. And I would prefer to pay the higher taxes as tied to my higher property value if it means that police and fire come when I call, or my neighborhood gets plowed. Vacant homes also invite crime and n'er-do-wells.

It impacts schools. For every student that has to move out because their home is foreclosed on, schools lose money. And when home prices drop, the amount of money going to school districts from your taxes drops (if, indeed, that's how your schools are funded). And that means your kids lose out.

It impacts the community. Less people living in neighborhoods, or keeping their houses but only because they sacrifice other things aren't out spending money on those other things. Whether it's groceries, clothes, gas for the lawn mower, or a tub toy, each of these things is tied to a job for someone else. Less consumer spending = less jobs. Which perpetuates the cycle of foreclosures all over again.

Again, I'm not in favor of compensating for people's irresponsibilities, but in this case, helping those people who need it benefits me in the end. And from what I can tell, the homeowner stimulus isn't wiping out anyone's mortgage...irresponsible people and people who need help aren't going to get free housing. They're just going to get their debt restructured a bit so they can once again afford the basics in life.

And, yes, generations to come will be paying for this. But they would have paid for inaction also. Which is worse?

KG - go.

 

[susanr613]

Andrea, take your last paragraph and replace the players with brokerage companies, banking industry, and loan officers and you have the same result.

 

[susanr613]

Jean, I was too lazy to write what you wrote in such detail. Thank you!

 

[erinb]

Well said, Jean, well said

 

[erinb]

Andrea, take your last paragraph and replace the players with brokerage companies, banking industry, and loan officers and you have the same result.

Let's not forget those that qualified for stated income/ stated asset programs and fudged the truth about how much they really made (or didn't).

 

[candiejayne]

Here in our area, anywhere from 65-75% of our tax dollars go towards the schools. We are not hurting big around here with forclosures, nor are we seeing the drop in property values, but my office alone went from an average of 50-60 sales a month to an average of 10 a month in the last few months.

There was just an article in the paper today that John Deere came in this quarter with a 45% loss in profits. That is HUGE for our area because we have 4 plants and the headquarters in this area. If things continue this way for them, we are going to start seeing major job losses, and it's going to be a domino effect. I really don't want to see that happen.

My BF and I are very fortunate right now. He is in the construction business, and after being laid off for 4 months, he is finally back to work. There is no guarentee that it is going to last, but atleast we are doing alright right now. I am also very lucky with my goverment job with seniority over most of my office. If it comes to letting people go, there will be a few before me.

I really feel bad for those that are dealing with job losses, it's got to be so hard.

 

[The_Kitchen_Guy]

Kelly, you're not the (figurative) person that caused the banking failure. The problems began in the late 70's with a bad piece of legislation called the Community Reinvestment Act. It was the first of several more pieces of bad legislation that required banks to make loans to people who had no business buying houses they couldn't afford and taking out mortgages they couldn't repay.

Several watchdogs have been saying for years that the banking industry was on the way to a collapse, but certain politicians, who are still all in play, kept telling us, no, everything is fine, no problems, no need to investigate the banking situation...and six months later, well, you know better than anyone what happened.

 

[ChefBeckyD]

Kelly, you're not the (figurative) person that caused the banking failure. The problems began in the late 70's with a bad piece of legislation called the Community Reinvestment Act. It was the first of several more pieces of bad legislation that required banks to make loans to people who had no business buying houses they couldn't afford and taking out mortgages they couldn't repay.

Several watchdogs have been saying for years that the banking industry was on the way to a collapse, but certain politicians, who are still all in play, kept telling us, no, everything is fine, no problems, no need to investigate the banking situation...and six months later, well, you know better than anyone what happened.

I think this is prophetic...oh, wait, it can't be prophetic, because it already happened. (I've been reading LOST forums too much tonight!)

But I do think that people want to lay the blame on the previous administration, and aren't looking for the REAL cause of what has happened in the past 12 months. It goes back farther than 8 years.

 

[Jean DeVries]

I think this is prophetic...oh, wait, it can't be prophetic, because it already happened. (I've been reading LOST forums too much tonight!)

But I do think that people want to lay the blame on the previous administration, and aren't looking for the REAL cause of what has happened in the past 12 months. It goes back farther than 8 years.

While they can't be blamed for causing it, they can be blamed for ignoring it.

Like all those before it.

 

[candiejayne]

I wasn't born until the 80's, and I don't remember things, and I know I'm under-educated on things before the last 10 years. Anyone have any websites with information or anything I can read up on to try to educate myself more with this?

 

[vonfirmath]

As I understand it, from reading Searchlight Crusade, most people go out there and buy the most house they can. Most people, buying houses, do not consider that at any time they could lose their job and therefore, not just live within their means, but below their means, with emergency funds to help with keeping the roof over the head in those times, etc.

Also, so far as I can tell, most people think living within your means means being able to afford all the payments on your vehicles, your credit cards, etc. without going into debt more. Not necessarily having no debt whatsoever.

And having that debt also makes it much more difficult to live when you lose a job/have to downgrade to a different job with less pay.

So while loan officers, etc. may have been misleading people, I still have to put the large part of blame on the person who bought the house. When you are spending $100K plus, it seems to me its time to know an awful lot more before you invest your money and not just nod your head and believe whatever you are told. (Often, what you want to hear, as well)

I didn't know everything I needed to buying my first place, but I got a pre-approval for $X and didn't even tell the realtor what that X was -- I even got them to write the pre-approval for the number that caused the payment I wanted (And luckily I did not get messed up with the loans with changing interest rates because I was conservative enough I wanted nothing weird that I could not understand) and thus the realtor never got the chance to show me stuff much over what my desired number was. (And Searchlight Crusade says if a realtor once shows you something over what you have told them your budget is, that should be a red light to run Far Away from them)

Anyway, here's what Searchlight has to say about the "Help for Homeowners" provision.
http://www.searchlightcrusade.net/2009/02/barack_obamas_help_for_homeown.html

 

[debbieskitchenhelper]

The same way with us,,,, my dh is probably going to get laid off next week. Over 500 or more are going to be laid off,, and probably for good. He has been with the company for 34 years and is probably going to lose his job. We are paying on our home which is a simple rancher. And the lady at the bank said,, it is just a house, you can start over if you lose it.. We,. this is not just a house. it is our home. I have no idea what is going to happen but I will tell you one thing. I will do everything within my and his not to lose our home. So if the govenment can help,, I sure in the heck hope so. There are alot of good hard working people out there, through no fault of their own that need help. And by darn it,. I hope everyone who needs it gets the help they need. Someone made the statement , they they pay their bills on time,, well that is great. But there are alot of people that would love to, if they were able to do so. I got so hot , when I started reading this column. Good people need help right now. God help us all who do.

 

[pampered1224]

I am going to say only a few things here. Don't continue this thread. We all know how these things turn out and this one is dangerous. Too many people can get hurt here. I beg you to not continue this one.

 

[Shawnna]

A lot of the problem I see is that children...young men and women...move out of their parents homes, get married...some don't...and then expect to have everything their parents now have...a nice house, a new car, great clothes, etc...nevermind that it took their parents years and years to build up to what they have now. Our parents started out in old run down homes...renting not buying...going to the laundry-mat, driving an old car eating bologna, casseroles, etc. They didn't start their married life with a big fancy house, 2 new cars, all top of the line appliances and eating out or eating steak at home. Lenders give these kids these loans...and credit card companies start hounding kids before they get out of high school with fantastic offers.

But, this so called stimulus package is a joke. The majority of the money is not going to improve the economy or create jobs...its going to overseas, its going to furnish contraceptives to our kids. Stupid stuff.

Yes, there are genuine people who need help...the same with the welfare system. But, like the current welfare system, it is going to be helping a lot of people who could get off their lazy butts and get a job and work hard like we do. I think this is going to be just like the current welfare system and that stinks. People in my area who do not work 1 day a year make more money on welfare than my family does working 6 days a week 10-15 hours a day. And then, when tax time comes around they get bigger refunds than we do because they spend the year getting my hard earned dollars and then they get it again at tax time.

I have not seen the welfare system work 1 time for a family who really needs assistance. As a matter of fact those people who work hard and fall on hard times for whatever reason are usually turned down for assistance at the time they need it. I think these bail-out packages are going to work the same way.

As I stated...there are families who need this and if those were the people who were going to get it I would be extremely happy. I just don't see it happening that way.

 

[The_Kitchen_Guy]

While they can't be blamed for causing it, they can be blamed for ignoring it.

Like all those before it.

The previous administration did NOT ignore it. The watchdogs were all pooh-poohed by a group led by Barney Frank, who told us there was no danger, no problem, nothing to worry about. As James Thurber used to say, you could look it up.

 

[christinaspc]

All I can say is wow.... this thread is something for sure. I agree with some of the things about all the hand outs given to the people who need it the most, and then their are those who just live off of it cause for some reason they do for themselves. I am glad for this home mortage deal to go through cause maybe my brother wont lose his house and my newphews wouldn't have to move in with either my mother or me not saying I wouldn't open the door cause I would. But some people do make the wrong choices and my brothers case he married the wrong person and he is playing cleaning from the heck it whirl wind of the after math of everything that has happened to him this year between getting devoirced not by his choice, and then losing his job. The only hand out he has taken is the christmas presents Julie and her pc mates supplied him with and he was ever so grateful he didn't and nor did I all I asked was just for pray for him and his boys..... I am sorry but yes this thread did offend me for some of the things that were said and I guess if you haven't experienced some of the things I am seeing 1st hand with my brother or going through it for yourself. You shouldn't judge those people who have gotten the hand-outs. I do feel if the 1st time around president would of given the people who had troubled mortages.... the money instead of the bank it would of probably been avoided who is to say. I am sorry if you or others find my post off base rude, or whatever but this hit me the wrong way on so many levels. I do hope this thread gets closed.

 

[Jean DeVries]

I could, but that's what I have you for

In my own happy little world, anyone who appears on television behind a podium, in front of a senate committee hearing, at an impeachment trial, or in a bathroom in the Minneapolis airport, is part of the administration.

 

[Jean DeVries]

And I think it would be a sad commentary on all of us if the thread did get closed.

We're grown adults (some of us reluctantly), and healthy debate is good for the soul. Seeing other points of view is how we grow...either by being exposed to another perspective, or by strengthening our opinions and challenging us to defend them in a deeper or better way.

No one has flung poo at anyone else yet, or specifically derided anyone on this topic. No one has insulted anyone's intelligence, or blamed anyone specifically for whatever troubles they may be in. That would be nearly impossible, since none of us walk in each other's shoes enough to make any sort of judgement call on their lives, right?

I think if this topic degenerated into people calling other degenerates, or in some way personalizing it and specifically calling someone irresponsible or lazy or whatever, then yes, we should all get a time-out and get sent back to our respective corners to think about what we've done.

Unfortunately, some people have opinions, and other people can be sensitive to those opinions because of their life circumstances at that point. Not talking about those opinions and sensitivities won't help us to understand each other as people and bring about world peace.

Sorry. It's late.

I'm taking my bleeding liberal heart and going to bed. Peace out all y'all!

 

[BethCooks4U]

The welfare system was set up to get rid of poverty in America but people took advantage of it and became a way of life for many. The "powers that be" were negligent in letting that happen and it needs to be fixed. Tommy Thompson (WI Govenor) did a lot to help change that with his Welfare to Work program. We need more of that.

But that system is not what got us in this mess. GREED got us in this mess. To get more money, loans were sold over and over with no security and the people at the top of companies decided they were entitled. They get obscene bonuses even when the company fails. Lay off some people to make that profit or to keep the company afloat but by no means defer my bonus. Comments have been made that by saying companies that get government help can't give those bonuses is dumbing down the industry. Please. They did not reach their objectives. They need the people's money. They don't DESERVE the bonus. If I don't do my job, if I fail at my objectives, I LOSE my job and there ain't no bonus. How do they deserve it? Because they were born into money? The class system is alive and well in America and the middle class is being pushed back down to where we deserve to be. Give the tax breaks to the rich so they can trickle down the money to the masses, yeah, we've seen how that works.

The people with the big bucks run the politicians - they give a donation and the politician gives them the favors. It's a big circle and the guy in the middle who works hard is the one who ends up with nothing and no help. The guy at the top still gets his bonus welfare and the guy at the bottom gets his welfare. We get screwed.

People did buy over their heads but be fair, many of them were told they could afford it by "professionals" who "knew" what they were talking about. Sure, the people should have known they couldn't really afford some of what they bought but they don't deserve to be crucified for it. (Fortunately, we personally never bought into that and while we were in debt for a while it was because of a lay off and we pulled ourselves back out.)

I am tired of the "the other side is wrong" attitude. They (our government and business professionals - those getting all those big bucks for making the decisions that affect my money) need to stop thinking of their own wallets and fix this mess. The first step it to eliminate those bonuses and use that money to help the people that are losing everything.

You know, it's not that people are being layed off - lay offs cycle all the time. I remember in the 80's when the local factories laid off and it trickled to other businesses including the hospital I worked at - I was a nurse and I was laid off too. The thing is that now it's how MANY people it effects and something must be done or we'll be back to how things were in the 30's. Most of us have no idea. The current administration did not create this mess but at least they are trying. Congress needs to realize that they must work together - neither side should get all they want but they need to do what's right by the people. My vote counts and I will vote for change that works.

 

[candiejayne]

My vote counts and I will vote for change that works.

I love that sentence!

 

[Jean DeVries]

Experts say Obama's foreclosure fix will work - Feb. 18, 2009

 

[candiejayne]

I have to go get ready for work, I started reading it, but I don't have time to finish, nor time to respond too. Thanks for posting though, I will be following up with it when I have more time!