Holiday Plates/Platter Instead of Christmas!

[susanr613]

i could not resist ;-)

and i do want to sell the platter

because it will sit in my garage, which would be a waste

 

[Kitchen Diva]

Glad I'm not the only one! Besides, Hanukah is all about latkes (potato pancakes) not cake ;-)

Susan, I am learning a lot about the Jewish religion at work, since my bosses are all Jewish. Do you have Mazuzah's in your house? Did I spell that right?

I'm glad you are open to people asking questoins about your faith because I'm full of questions!

 

[Kitchen Diva]

I am glad to know there is a Greek symbol that means Christ too. But in my experience the ones using "x" are using it to take Christ out, they do not know about the Greek symbol either. I do not think that is something widely known to everyone.

I knew that, my pastor taught on it one year... but I'm not everyone am I?

 

[Kitchen Diva]

In the business world, Holiday is the politically correct term. I work in an office FT and we are not allowed to say Merry Christmas only Happy Holidays.

Hmmm nothing in the bible about being politically correct...in fact everything Jesus and His Disciples did was considered politically and spiritually incorrect...

I'm still gonna say Merry Christmas and Happy Festivus! And if you celebrate Kwanza or Hannukah I'll wish you Happiness for your special holiday as well.

So I'm gonna be politically incorrect and take a stand-biblically of course.

It used to be okay to pray in schools, put up trees and manger scene's, say Merry Christmas...and now it's not correct to do it in so many facets of our lives that eventually we won't be allowed to say it in our own homes. If you look closely God is slowly being squeezed out of everything... in the name of political correctness... So Jenn, I'm adding some worms to your can!

 

[susanr613]

kacey i have one mezuzah on the doorpost of my front door. more observant jews have them on all the internal doorposts too.

btw, you pmed me on another topic that your bosses say you have chutzpah. from what i observe from your posts, you:
have chutzpah (moxie, confidence, cojones)
are hamish (down to earth)
are a mensch (a good, honest, upright person)
and you have a shayna punim (pretty face)!

ask any questions you want and i will try to answer them. thanks for being interested in learning!

 

[janetupnorth]

I knew that, my pastor taught on it one year... but I'm not everyone am I?

Do the voices in your head keep telling you that?

 

[gothim0802]

You go girl!! I back you 100%! I would love to see their reponse.

 

[Kitchen Diva]

Do the voices in your head keep telling you that?

Yes... but it's okay they know me there!

 

[pampchefsarah]

(My son had a new friend in 4th grade who saw the fish symbol on my car and said "I didn't know you were Christian, I thought you were Catholic").

Beth, this made me laugh. When I was in high school I asked a friend if she was Christian. Her reply was "No, I'm Catholic." I just shook my head and said "Catholics are Christian." In fact, you are the original Christians!!

In 2006 and 2007, I was in charge of planning the Seder for our church. We have a speaker come in (David Jafferty) who shows how all the symbols point to the birth and death of Jesus. We didn't do it in 2008, because Passover was so much later than Easter, but I'm sure we'll do it again in 2009. It is truly an amazing event!

No comment on the Holiday vs. Christmas, because I can't say anything different or better than what's already been said.

Sarah

 

[Kitchen Diva]

kacey i have one mezuzah on the doorpost of my front door. more observant jews have them on all the internal doorposts too.

btw, you pmed me on another topic that your bosses say you have chutzpah. from what i observe from your posts, you:
have chutzpah (moxie, confidence, cojones)
are hamish (down to earth)
are a mensch (a good, honest, upright person)
and you have a shayna punim (pretty face)!

ask any questions you want and i will try to answer them. thanks for being interested in learning!

Aww, that's super cool and really sweet! I'm going to show that to my bosses... How cook is that!? I bought some Hamentaschen (sp?) the other day and one of my sales guys that I assist came over and said "You know what those are?" I'm like, how do you think I got so fluffy? LOL Then I told him about my going to a Jewish Deli for lunch and ordering a ham sammie!

I'll get my list of questions together for you. We have Mezuzah's on every doorway at work, except the bathrooms, of course! I do know that a verse from Leviticus is in there- right?

 

[janetupnorth]

I have to admit that I was well in my twenties before I learned that people define Christian and born-again Christian differently.That Philosophy of Religion class in college was interesting...taught by a self-proclaimed agnostic and full of engineering students...talk about some interesting discussions!

 

[susanr613]

oh yes...forgot about that story (deli) that was priceless!

ask away....the invite is extended to anyone else too if you want to learn more. if i don't know the answer off the top of my head, i will look it up for you.

 

[Kitchen Diva]

I am Christian and hate the use of "holiday" when Christmas is really what is meant. I too am tired of Christians having to be sensitive to all other religions but being raked over the coals if we try to talk about our own faith. I am Catholic and there are lots of other Christian groups that put us down too. (My son had a new friend in 4th grade who saw the fish symbol on my car and said "I didn't know you were Christian, I thought you were Catholic").

On the other side of it though, I do feel that a lot of Christians throw Christianity in others' faces. So often I hear about people acting Christian and other such comments. We are people of faith. I know many people of other faiths that are as good or better than me - more faith-filled. It is arrogant of us to think that being Christian is better than other faiths and even though many are humble in their faith they come across as arrogant to those of other faiths by their words. There are times when "happy holidays" or seasons greatings" is appropriate.

That being said, Christmas is the celebration of Jesus Christ's birth and should not be watered down by changing it to a generic term. We don't ask our Jewish friends to call Hanukkah "holiday" for instance. I do look for Christmas Cards that say Christmas. And I send Hanukkah to friends I know are Jewish. They have all told me that Christmas cards would have been fine with them - it's the thought that counts.

I do agree that those plates should be called Christmas plates and that it would have been better if they had been winter scenes so that no one would be left out in the holiday joy. This is why it has taken so long for PC to even come out with such items. IMHO

God is no respector of persons, so we should not think too highly of ourselves...just like you said above in your post...that some christians feel that their denomination is better than other's...that's NOT what it's about! Good post, Beth!

 

[janetupnorth]

OK, now Susan is talking a foreign language to me! I'm glad you translated though Susan! I love to learn too.About a year ago I asked someone about the underclothes (I forget what they call them - SORRY!) in the Mormon religion. It's not something people talk about so I was glad she was open to explain!

 

[Kitchen Diva]

well said, janet!

i'm just happy i won't insult you and my other christian friends when i wish you a merry christmas in a few months

Why would that insult me? Silly rabbit... now if you forget to wish me Happy B-day, well then we've got issues woman!

You can wish me Merry Christmas and I'll wish you Happy Hannuhka!~

Okay, here is a question... what is the difference between Hannuhka and Christmas according to the Jewish religion? (I hope I asked that in a way that didn't seem snooty- this is just one of the questions I have always wondered, and based on the is it called:type/denomination of Jewish religion that you follow it might be different, so hence my question) Just know that I'm asking out of simple, childlike curiosity and respect.

 

[Kitchen Diva]

I too get tired of "complaining" that goes on and there are people that do "complain" and are always negative. However, on this thread, I see a whole group of people who normally don't complain, and they are bringing up valid points and expressing logic to go with them.

These are the same people who wholeheartedly love the company and defend almost all decisions.

AND, they are expressing their complaints intelligently and taking it to HO where appropriate. They are not on here bashing PC.

I didn't see anyone who disagreed with the name saying that they weren't going to sell them. They just disagreed over the choice of terms on them.

I say let the discussion continue. It was quite intellectual compared to many in the past.

Well said, Janet. I agree- very intellectual indeed and you answered her post very lovingly.

 

[janetupnorth]

Ok, I have to go to bed (you too Kacey!!!!)...but I will have to catch up tomorrow as Susan educates us further. Between Becky and Susan today I filled a few more brain cells up. (Wonder what information I pushed aside for that?)

 

[susanr613]

"On the other side of it though, I do feel that a lot of Christians throw Christianity in others' faces. So often I hear about people acting Christian and other such comments. We are people of faith. I know many people of other faiths that are as good or better than me - more faith-filled. It is arrogant of us to think that being Christian is better than other faiths and even though many are humble in their faith they come across as arrogant to those of other faiths by their words."

Unfortunately, you can plug in almost any other religion's name in place of Christian.

 

[Kitchen Diva]

"On the other side of it though, I do feel that a lot of Christians throw Christianity in others' faces. So often I hear about people acting Christian and other such comments. We are people of faith. I know many people of other faiths that are as good or better than me - more faith-filled. It is arrogant of us to think that being Christian is better than other faiths and even though many are humble in their faith they come across as arrogant to those of other faiths by their words."

Unfortunately, you can plug in almost any other religion's name in place of Christian.

Sadly sometimes Christians make the worst Christians.

I'm working on that however...

 

[susanr613]

Why would that insult me? Silly rabbit... now if you forget to wish me Happy B-day, well then we've got issues woman!

You can wish me Merry Christmas and I'll wish you Happy Hannuhka!~

Okay, here is a question... what is the difference between Hannuhka and Christmas according to the Jewish religion? (I hope I asked that in a way that didn't seem snooty- this is just one of the questions I have always wondered, and based on the is it called:type/denomination of Jewish religion that you follow it might be different, so hence my question) Just know that I'm asking out of simple, childlike curiosity and respect.

Christmas celebrates the birth of Jesus. Jewish belief denies that Jesus even existed, let alone was the son of God and Messiah etc. We are still waiting for the first go-round, while Christians are waiting for the sequel. Therefore, Jews do not observe Christmas. This is true across all denominations.

Hanukah commemorates a successful uprising by the Jews against a foreign occupyng ruler, who had forbade Jews from observing their faith and desecrated the Temple in Jerusalem.

Hanukah is a relatively minor holiday, but has been blown way out of proportion because it occurs near Christmas. This is a shame and diminishes both holidays IMHO.

Passover, which is near Easter, commemorates God liberating the Hebrews from slavery in Egypt (aka The Ten Commandments). It is a major holiday, with special meals and such. I am pretty sure that Jesus' last supper was a Passover seder (dinner).

And so endeth the lesson for tonight...time for bed!

 

[ChefBeckyD]

Christmas celebrates the birth of Jesus. Jewish belief denies that Jesus even existed, let alone was the son of God and Messiah etc. We are still waiting for the first go-round, while Christians are waiting for the sequel. Therefore, Jews do not observe Christmas. This is true across all denominations.

Hanukah commemorates a successful uprising by the Jews against a foreign occupyng ruler, who had forbade Jews from observing their faith and desecrated the Temple in Jerusalem.

Hanukah is a relatively minor holiday, but has been blown way out of proportion because it occurs near Christmas. This is a shame and diminishes both holidays IMHO.

Passover, which is near Easter, commemorates God liberating the Hebrews from slavery in Egypt (aka The Ten Commandments). It is a major holiday, with special meals and such. I am pretty sure that Jesus' last supper was a Passover seder (dinner).

And so endeth the lesson for tonight...time for bed!

Yes, it was!

This has been a fun dialog....I love this kind of discussion. I love learning, and hearing others viewpoints and being able to discuss - without arguing -our differences....doing that just brings us closer together, and for me, makes me realize that we aren't so different after all! (nerd!)

Sorry that some didn't see it for what it was.

 

[kitchenfun2day]

I get tired of everyone costantly complaining about something from the home office. They try very hard to make the right choices for the company and for the consultants. Why does everyone always have to find something to complain about. If you are not interested in selling the "holiday plates" then don't, don't talk about them either at your shows. But let everyone make up their own minds as to whether this is an item that they would like to puchase. You are never going to make everyone happy.

 

[kitchenfun2day]

I think these are tacky to be honest and would not buy them if they were on sell at the dollar store.

:balloon:

 

[pjpamchef]

It's not disrespectful in the least. And - knowing you are Jewish, I wouldn't wish you a Merry Christmas, but I would wish you a Happy Hannukah (or is it Chanukah? That does always confuse me!?)

And - the term "Holiday" doesn't really bother me. It's a marketing thing for sales. They want to include all of the celebrations around that time....so use a generic term....but incidentally, "holiday" is derived from "Holy Day"....so it can apply to Christmas. And, in the Christian faith - the highest holy day is not Christmas, but Easter...

You are totally correct! I am sitting here with a Marketing Degree (I know, easiest program in the business college) and almost 30 years sales experience, and all the marketing team was thinking about when naming the product, is how can we make this stay relevant in the market place the longest?? If we call it a Christmas Platter, then they will only buy it for Christmas. But if we call it a Holiday Platter, then maybe it will stay out there thru end of Jan or even longer!!

 

[kitchenfun2day]

Then I would not say anything at all. I am not "politically correct" when it comes to Christ's birth.

:angel:

 

[CookingwithMary]

Holiday plates :yuck:..plain would have worked for me though.

Now if they were bamboo, I have customers who would go nuts for little appetizer/sushi plates, and other sizes of bamboo. Although similar bamboo items are available less expensively elsewhere.

 

[DebbieJ]

I get tired of everyone costantly complaining about something from the home office. They try very hard to make the right choices for the company and for the consultants. Why does everyone always have to find something to complain about. If you are not interested in selling the "holiday plates" then don't, don't talk about them either at your shows. But let everyone make up their own minds as to whether this is an item that they would like to puchase. You are never going to make everyone happy.

what she said. The plates are in the catalog--you can't change that. Either sell them or don't.

 

[BethCooks4U]

Susan! Thank you so much for all the information you are sharing! Many of us have had little exposure to your faith and are grateful (I had no clue that Hanukkah was not as major as we thought). The more we know about each other the better our world becomes.

Now how about some of the other faiths? I would love to learn more about the other major religions of the world.

 

[Kitchen Diva]

what she said. The plates are in the catalog--you can't change that. Either sell them or don't.

Please read Janet's post (#43) on page 3 of this thread- no one is complaining, and if you read this entire thread you will see that it is so much more than this...

This is one of those threads that it's better to read the whole book before you judge it by it's cover (thread title and 1st post)

 

[ChefBeckyD]

Please read Janet's post (#43) on page 3 of this thread- no one is complaining, and if you read this entire thread you will see that it is so much more than this...

This is one of those threads that it's better to read the whole book before you judge it by it's cover (thread title and 1st post)

Thanks Kacey - I was trying to figure out how to respond.....you did it well for me!

 

[MissChef]

And, even though they may try...even by saying Xmas they are not taking Christ out of Christmas.

X (although I can't draw it correctly on this keyboard) is the Greek symbol for Christ. In Theology and Bible classes during college, I often used an X in my notes to signify Christ.

Thanks Becky! I did not know this and it makes me soooo less offended of that! I hope I remember it this coming Christmas Holiday!

 

[ChefBeckyD]

Thanks Becky! I did not know this and it makes me soooo less offended of that! I hope I remember it this coming Christmas Holiday!

See Janet's post where she has a link to a great article regarding this!

 

[vwpamperedchef]

Wow this thread has developed since yesterday! I love this discussion! Most everyone has valid points and it is great to hear the views of non-Christians as well! Thanks for sharing!

 

[jrstephens]

I am pretty sure that Jesus' last supper was a Passover seder (dinner).

And so endeth the lesson for tonight...time for bed!

Questions? Since you say the above does this mean in your Jewish faith you believe Jesus has been born on Earth already?

Maybe I should've just pm'd you this? I do not want to sound.....well I can't think of the right word I am looking for...maybe controversal. I am just curious.

 

[ChefBeckyD]

Questions? Since you say the above does this mean in your Jewish faith you believe Jesus has been born on Earth already?Maybe I should've just pm'd you this? I do not want to sound.....well I can't think of the right word I am looking for...maybe controversal. I am just curious.

Interesting question, because what I thought was that Jewish people didn't deny that Jesus existed.....they just do not believe the He is the Immanuel/Savior. What I have been taught is that the Christian faith teaches that Jesus Christ is the prophesied Savior, come to save His people - In the Jewish faith, they are still waiting for the coming of the Savior.Maybe I don't have it right - or maybe I just have half of the facts?

 

[susanr613]

Questions? Since you say the above does this mean in your Jewish faith you believe Jesus has been born on Earth already?

Maybe I should've just pm'd you this? I do not want to sound.....well I can't think of the right word I am looking for...maybe controversal. I am just curious.

Good question - what I meant was that if you believe in Jesus and the Gospels, the last supper was probably a seder.

According to Judaism, Jesus did not exist, as a human or otherwise.

Hope that clears up any confusion

 

[jrstephens]

Interesting question, because what I thought was that Jewish people didn't deny that Jesus existed.....they just do not believe the He is the Immanuel/Savior. What I have been taught is that the Christian faith teaches that Jesus Christ is the prophesied Savior, come to save His people - In the Jewish faith, they are still waiting for the coming of the Savior.

Maybe I don't have it right - or maybe I just have half of the facts?

That is what I have always been taught too. I have a friend whose daughter's husband is Jewish and that is what he believes as well.

 

[janetupnorth]

Good question - what I meant was that if you believe in Jesus and the Gospels, the last supper was probably a seder.

According to Judaism, Jesus did not exist, as a human or otherwise.

Hope that clears up any confusion

Nope, you just got me!

So do you believe that there is a coming Messiah and if so, does he have a name or just Messiah?

So, Jesus in your faith didn't exist as even an everyday person that lived and you don't believe that He exists in heaven waiting to come?

???

 

[jrstephens]

Good question - what I meant was that if you believe in Jesus and the Gospels, the last supper was probably a seder.

According to Judaism, Jesus did not exist, as a human or otherwise.

Hope that clears up any confusion

Thanks!! I "heard" it to mean you believed Jesus had His last supper already. But we all know we "hear" things different on here!

 

[jrstephens]

Nope, you just got me!

So do you believe that there is a coming Messiah and if so, does he have a name or just Messiah?

So, Jesus in your faith didn't exist as even an everyday person that lived and you don't believe that He exists in heaven waiting to come?

???

Great additional questions!

 

[ChefBeckyD]

I do know that in the Jewish faith, the name Jesus has no significant meaning - at the time of Christ's birth, it was just a name.....there were others named Jesus too....but only One who claimed to be the Christ.

 

[lacychef]

I am glad to know there is a Greek symbol that means Christ too. But in my experience the ones using "x" are using it to take Christ out, they do not know about the Greek symbol either. I do not think that is something widely known to everyone.

Well I for one do not use the X to take Christ out.....good to know about the symbol, I guess I was just being lazy honestly; just get in a hurry typing...

 

[lacychef]

Good lessons here btw!

 

[chefsara]

This has been one of the most interesting discussions I have ever read on CS. The lession in Judaism is so interesting. I am very thankful that we all can declare our faith and be friends still. Anyway, isn't that what Jesus taught? When I first started going to PC shows 15 years ago the Consultant expressed that it was a Christian company and that made a real impression on me and I have stuck with PC as my #1 home demo product show. It is sad that if that was so that they are bending to the pressure of the times to change Christmas to "holiday". Will they change Easter next? This has been a great discussion and I am so glad that someone had the courage and confidence to speak up. No one has offended anyone and it has been a real learning link. You are all great gals & guys. We are in this together! That is what makes this a great company.

 

[TammyStar]

I guess if you wanted to be PC (politcally correct) not Pampered Chef, you would have come out with "seasonal plates".

Holiday plates is the PC way of celebrating the Holiday formerly known as Christmas.

LOL Okay I'm gonna admit from years of watching ALL MY CHILDREN ( I remember when Erica was a cheerleader at Pine Valley High) PC reminds me of Palmer Cortland. And I'm new so I'm just getting used to PC meaning Pampered Chef. Thats why I like when people use "TPC". Although "TPC" is the golfcourse in Las Vegas close to where I used to live. (The Players Club)

Also laughed out loud about "the holiday fomerly known as Christmas" that was funny but sad at the same time because thats what our society has done to something that is very sacred to many people.

Not trying to Hijack a serious topic, but Janet your posts make me laugh, you must be very entertaining at cooking shows or we just have the same sense of humor.

And for the record, I agree with Chris and her original post, kudos to you for emailing HO, they should have known using the term "holiday" instead of Christmas was going to "stir the pot" of endless debates!

 

[susanr613]

What I was taught was that Jesus never existed. I am not the expert on Judaism, and there are different denominations, in degrees of observance and interpretation of the Bible and Talmud. So, Jennifer, your friend's SIL may very well have been taught differently.

To the Jews, the Messiah has not arrived yet - we don't know when, we don't know gender/name etc.

 

[janetupnorth]

What I was taught was that Jesus never existed. I am not the expert on Judaism, and there are different denominations, in degrees of observance and interpretation of the Bible and Talmud. So, Jennifer, your friend's SIL may very well have been taught differently.

To the Jews, the Messiah has not arrived yet - we don't know when, we don't know gender/name etc.

Thanks Susan - that clears up a bit. Basically, in your denomination the man mentioned in history and the Bible does not exist. You believe in A messiah, just don't know the time, place or format.

Other denominations may believe Jesus existed but in not who we say He is and are still waiting for the Messiah similar to you.

(Summarized right? - I'm processing. )

 

[janetupnorth]

Glad to make you laugh Tammy - I have kind of a dry sense of humor sometimes (or my DH thinks so...) You have to think or read closely to get the joke usually...but it's there...

 

[ChefBeckyD]

Glad to make you laugh Tammy - I have kind of a dry sense of humor sometimes (or my DH thinks so...) You have to think or read closely to get the joke usually...but it's there...

Where?...Where?....Hey, I don't see it - where'd it go???

 

[lkprescott]

Susan! Thank you so much for all the information you are sharing! Many of us have had little exposure to your faith and are grateful (I had no clue that Hanukkah was not as major as we thought). The more we know about each other the better our world becomes.

Now how about some of the other faiths? I would love to learn more about the other major religions of the world.

How about the minor ones? LOL

I'm always open to questions about my beliefs but not ever here to push or proselytize. But I have, on occasion, opened my mouth in defense (not just here but elsewhere) and as another voice in a variety of topics. Yule is one of my favorite holidays... the stories are fun, the appreciation of our blessings (compared to our ancestors, especially) is enormous and well, since most our symbols of the season have been borrowed it's an easy holiday to celebrate 'outloud' without sticking out oddly. LOL...