jenne
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janetupnorth said:I can agree with that!
PHEW!! :blushing: Sometimes I feel like I am just way out there and nobody agrees with me!! I don't always make sense in writing, but it all makes sense in my head!!!
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janetupnorth said:I can agree with that!
jenne said:Oh...sorry...
BUT....Don't make any assumptions about which candidate I back because I want limited government. (not saying that you've done this, but can see how someone could) The limited government McCain talks about is not limited enough for me. I don't like either candidate that is placed before us this year, and feel that our two party system is a joke. I would like to see some REAL change....but REAL to the point that NEITHER candidate satisfies me.
Anyhow...that is another topic completely...and I won't rabbit trail that one any further on this thread about our economic mess. I just think the government needs to stay out of this mess we are in...many economists are against a bailout deal and feel that our economy would straighten itself out...I don't have time to look up the 'proof' for that, but I've read many articles lately from many different sources that have stated that. If I have time later, I will cite some of them here.
jenne said:PHEW!! :blushing: Sometimes I feel like I am just way out there and nobody agrees with me!! I don't always make sense in writing, but it all makes sense in my head!!!
chefmeg said:That is where we differ~I feel it is always useful to cite God's law, debate or not. HE is the higher power that I will have to justify myself to one day and my live is lived on that standard. Everything we do is judged by HIM and that includes how we spend our money, time and energy.
You may not think you are pissed off, but your tone comes through loud & clear in your posts~they say a whole other thing.
I will leave this thread in giving you one piece of advice~it can never always be someone else's "fault"~example...if you have found that the majority of your posts are being attacked, YOU may be the one with a problem. Everyone else can't be all wrong all the time.
Hathery said:I'm sorry, but I don't see your point? If the government is not going to make housing available to all its people at a proportionate cost (we ARE entitled to affordable housing IMO), then they must ensure that loans are available to people who need them. What's so horrible about that?
It seems so logical doesn't it?Jennie4PC said:The housing market depends alot on where you live. Here in the middle of nowhere houses are way high. Granted if I didnt buy when I did we would be renting an apt cause houses are going for over 200k right now. They are that high because we have a lot of miners here that make some good money. I peopple should have shelter over thier head but if they cant afford a house then for crying out loud pay rent on an apt.
janetupnorth said:No, I think it is HOW you present yourself. I have no problem discussing opposing viewpoints. We have done it successfully here on MANY issues INCLUDING religion.
I'm not offended by your viewpoints but you need to discuss, debate, whatever within reasonable bounds.
You cannot quote statistics that aren't proven and state them as fact.
Read a small comment and yes I will use Kacey's word, manipulate it to your viewpoint.
No one is trying to scare anyone away. We had a great forum before you came and all the old people are still here. Some are choosing not to discuss politics and that is their choice.
I told you to use proper English meaning use the proper definition of a word as a dictionary stated it don't twist it into meaning something different.
Kacey was addressing the point above about taking a snip-it of something and making it seem like someone implied something else.
Leave the country, well, I missed that, but hey, if the government isn't living up to its INTENT AS FOUNDED, then it needs to get back to that. If you want to change it to your type of society and it won't, then you have every RIGHT in America to go elsewhere. I am thankful for those who have fought to make America what it is. Try leaving Cuba if you didn't like your government? The US lets us leave if we want.
No one is trying to force you out of here or America. You CHOSE to jump in on these topics and chose your words and I agree with Meg. It isn't one person disagreeing and it isn't because of opposing viewpoints, it is how you word things. You chose to jump in on a heated topic without getting to know people.
jenne said:PHEW!! :blushing: Sometimes I feel like I am just way out there and nobody agrees with me!! I don't always make sense in writing, but it all makes sense in my head!!!
Hathery said:Oh for the love...someone on here specifically said that abortion is wrong because it's in the Bible, and the Bible is God's word so it's the truth. There is absolutely no evidence other than religious tradition saying that the Bible is God's own word; believing it is does not make it fact.
Much of the Bible is certainly accurate historically, but the "law" portion of it cannot be used as factual evidence to prove anything in a debate. Even the most religious among us should know that.
I really don't recall quoting my ideals as fact either.
Just because people don't believe God's Word doesn't mean it isn't true, either. But, I do agree that using the Bible in a debate isn't very helpful when debating with unbelievers.Hathery said:Oh for the love...someone on here specifically said that abortion is wrong because it's in the Bible, and the Bible is God's word so it's the truth. There is absolutely no evidence other than religious tradition saying that the Bible is God's own word; believing it is does not make it fact.
Much of the Bible is certainly accurate historically, but the "law" portion of it cannot be used as factual evidence to prove anything in a debate. Even the most religious among us should know that.
I really don't recall quoting my ideals as fact either.
Kitchen Diva said:
Here is a great article about that.JAE said:Nobody is entitled to owning a home. Nobody.
ChefBeckyD said:It's okay Kacey.
That kind of rhetoric usually comes from someone who has known the Truth, and has chosen to walk away from it.
Not saying it's the case here - but I've heard it before....almost exactly in those words.
Hathery said:If you're talking about me, then yes...I was raised Christian. And no, I am no longer a practicing Christian. I am an interested spectator at this point.
janetupnorth said:I'm curious, what is your definition of "Christian"? What specific denomination.
(If that is too personal and you do not want to answer in public, feel free to PM me.)
Hathery said:No, it's not too personal My definition of Christian is someone who believes that Jesus Christ is the only way to eternal salvation. I was raised WELS Lutheran, to let you know my upbringing.
janetupnorth said:My daughter goes to a WELS Lutheran school, but I was raised Baptist. That definitely helps me understand your perspective a little bit. We definitely have some differences from the school on a few things but overall it is MUCH better than the public school and large classes right now!
No, she is only in 2nd grade. Our local school closed when she was 4, making the nearest school a 1 hour 15 minute bus ride each way and 26 in her kindergarten that year. She got into this school and had 9 in class.WELS is the most conservative Lutheran I believe, but we agree with most of their doctrine EXCEPT the way to be saved. However, I have a 7 year old that will not be swayed by much and studies well so if something comes up that she isn't sure about, you'd better believe that she says something and I also hear about it later to discuss it. When it comes to catchecism (?sp) time (7th-8th) I will be evaluating if she will continue there, but right now our Middle School is so bad, she'll be staying. For HS the only option is public school.ETA: It only costs me $350/yr. to send her there!Hathery said:WELS Lutheran is pretty strict as far as doctrine goes. I agree; your daughter is very lucky to go to a school like that. Public schools have class sizes that are really out of control is some areas. Did she go to public school before she went to the Lutheran School?
janetupnorth said:No, she is only in 2nd grade. Our local school closed when she was 4, making the nearest school a 1 hour 15 minute bus ride each way and 26 in her kindergarten that year. She got into this school and had 9 in class.
WELS is the most conservative Lutheran I believe, but we agree with most of their doctrine EXCEPT the way to be saved. However, I have a 7 year old that will not be swayed by much and studies well so if something comes up that she isn't sure about, you'd better believe that she says something and I also hear about it later to discuss it.
When it comes to catchecism (?sp) time (7th-8th) I will be evaluating if she will continue there, but right now our Middle School is so bad, she'll be staying. For HS the only option is public school.
ETA: It only costs me $350/yr. to send her there!
Hathery said:Wow, that doesn't cost much at all!!! That's awesome!
Yes, WELS is definitely the most conservative Lutheran denomination. As a young person in catechism class, I really questioned much of the teaching (particular about women's roles in the church.) I would say that was my main basis for leaving the church (not any issues I had with the actual faith or with God.)
Not meaning to hijack, but our church just had a Hermenuetics class a few weeks ago. I passed on it, but I'd never heard of it before then.ChefBeckyD said:I've questioned the same teaching. Especially after studying Biblical Languages and Hermenuetics. This is an excellent book about the subject of a woman's role in the Church.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0801008859/?tag=pfamazon01-20
JAE said:Not meaning to hijack, but our church just had a Hermenuetics class a few weeks ago. I passed on it, but I'd never heard of it before then.
ChefBeckyD said:It's okay Kacey.
That kind of rhetoric usually comes from someone who has known the Truth, and has chosen to walk away from it.
Not saying it's the case here - but I've heard it before....almost exactly in those words.
ChefBeckyD said:I took it my Sophomore year of college - had to have it to take upper level Bible classes. It was so difficult, that they sold T-shirts in the bookstore with the caption "I survived Hermeneutics".
FYI:
Main Entry: her·me·neu·tic
Pronunciation: \ˌhər-mə-ˈnü-tik, -ˈnyü-\
Function: noun
Date: 1737
1plural but sing or plural in constr : the study of the methodological principles of interpretation (as of the Bible)
2: a method or principle of interpretation
chefmeg said:Kacey~you are tooooo funny!
Anyone notice that the stock market apparently wasn't notified of the bailout today?????
ChefBeckyD said:I've questioned the same teaching. Especially after studying Biblical Languages and Hermenuetics. This is an excellent book about the subject of a woman's role in the Church.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0801008859/?tag=pfamazon01-20
The "Bailout Bill" refers to the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008, also known as the "Troubled Asset Relief Program" (TARP), which was proposed by the US Treasury Department as a response to the financial crisis in 2008. It aimed to give the government authority to purchase distressed assets from banks and other financial institutions in order to stabilize the economy.
The "Bailout Bill" failed in the House due to a lack of support from both Democrats and Republicans. Many lawmakers were concerned about the potential cost to taxpayers and the lack of oversight in the proposed plan.
If the "Bailout Bill" failed, there could be a significant impact on the stock market and the overall economy. Banks and other financial institutions could continue to struggle, potentially leading to a credit freeze and further economic downturn.
It is possible for the "Bailout Bill" to be reintroduced and passed in the future, but it would require significant revisions and bipartisan support. As of now, there are no plans to reintroduce the bill.
The failure of the "Bailout Bill" can potentially affect everyday citizens by causing instability in the economy and possibly leading to job losses, higher interest rates, and other financial challenges. It may also impact the availability of credit and loans for individuals and businesses.