Auto Maker Bailout Rejected: Washington's Short-Sighted Decision Sparks Outrage

[pampchefrhondab]

It looks like the bailout for the auto makers did not go through! What is wrong with those in Washington!!!!!!!!!

Don't they look at the numbers!! How much do they think they are going to lose in tax revenue not to mention how much they are going to have to pay out in unemployment, food stamps, etc.!!!! These are loans - not just handing them cash!!

I so want to march on Washington right now!

 

[ChefBeckyD]

It's because the UAW won't give any concessions. If they do a bailout like that, it won't solve anything, and we will be in the same place again in another 6 months.

The UAW needs to be dissolved, IMO.

 

[ljeffries]

I tend to agree with Becky--the won't give concessions. Also, included in the bailout 'package' were pay raises for federal judges.

 

[The_Kitchen_Guy]

There's far more at work here than appears on the surface, and far more than the network "news" is telling you about. The Republicans are calling for a change to the business model to make a healthy business that can move forward. Another reason this went down was because there would have been too much government medling in the operation of the companies. The very last thing you want is some bureaucrat determining the design of new automobiles.A "Car Czar"? Gimme a break.Just as an example of the brilliance of governmental designs - in 1974, the do-gooders thought we were all too stupid to buckle our seatbelts. They mandated a seat belt interlock - your car would not start if your seatbelt wasn't fastened - which on the surface doesn't seem like a bad idea, right? Wrong. The first time Mom went to the store and put a bag of groceries on the front seat, the car wouldn't start. Can you imagine having to put a seat belt on a bag of groceries? There was a grass roots revolt of absolute outrage, and within days, the seat belt interlock law was repealed and the useless box was (thankfully) disconnected.I don't want Washington dictating the kind of car I'm supposed to like and buy. If you want an idea of what an automobile designed by government is like, do a google search on http://www.time.com/time/specials/2007/article/0,28804,1658545_1658533_1658030,00.html. That's about what your SUV or minivan will look like if Nancy Peolosi gets her fingers into the automobile business.

 

[heather223]

It's because the UAW won't give any concessions. If they do a bailout like that, it won't solve anything, and we will be in the same place again in another 6 months.

The UAW needs to be dissolved, IMO.

I agree with you 100% on this!

 

[pamperedpnina]

For the record I hate politics almost as much as I hate debating them but I feel like I have to say something here!In what world do we reward miss management???????????? I'm one of those individuals who believes that the CEO's and anyone else should and could make as much as they would like. Its there right we live in a wonderful country with lots of great opportunity! however it is also the head honchos right to MISMANAGE money they can run their business's into the ground if it floats their boat but in no world that I can imagin should mismanagement be rewarded!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How come people don't see this? Seriously if I miss manage my buisness and it goes down the tubes it would not cross my mind to have the gov. jump in and save my butt! what kind of Chutzpa do these people have. If I was in charge of a massive strugling company I would take a pay cut b/c it would save the company. In fact if I wanted to see the company survive I'd give my company a loan from my account. If I thought it was not possible to save well then I'd cut my losses and close up shop. That is the responsibility and RISK involved in the buisness world. Our Gov. has its own prob! they should not be bailing out any companys!!!!!!!!

 

[chefann]

I saw mention on the news yesterday that more people support the Auto bail-out than not (although it was only 46%). But it's still much better than the 1/3 of the people who support the Wall Street bail-out. And some financial firms aren't abiding by the terms of their bail-out (executive pay, availability of loans to lower-income borrowers, etc.). I recognize that I'm not an uninterested observer (DH works for an automotive supplier, and his big projects at work are for GM), but I think some of the cash that was intended for banks that aren't sticking to their promises should be redirected to the Autos.

That's not to say that the industry doesn't need a lot of work. And the union has a lot to do with it. (The UAW is also having a press conference at 10am Eastern this morning - in 4 minutes.)

Just as an example of the brilliance of governmental designs - in 1974, the do-gooders thought we were all too stupid to buckle our seatbelts. They mandated a seat belt interlock - your car would not start if your seatbelt wasn't fastened - which on the surface doesn't seem like a bad idea, right?

Wrong.

The first time Mom went to the store and put a bag of groceries on the front seat, the car wouldn't start. Can you imagine having to put a seat belt on a bag of groceries? There was a grass roots revolt of absolute outrage, and within days, the seat belt interlock law was repealed and the useless box was (thankfully) disconnected.

Funny you mention this. We had a car with that interlock when I was little. Mom never wore her seat belt. And for years, I thought that you had to lift your rear off the front seat as part of the procedure for starting a car. And, yes, she had the grocery bag in the front seat problem, too.

 

[gailz2]

Part of the union problem is they pay a minimum of 30% more than what Toyota and Honda pay their autoworkers here in the US. Some concessions definitely need to be made by the unions. They were created to watch out for employees best interests many years ago, which was needed at the time. Now it's not needed as much.

 

[BethCooks4U]

I personally think unions are needed even more now. I'm not saying they don't need to be totally revamped but everything is about the people at the top getting everything and the people who do the work getting as little as the top people can get by with giving them. Reminds me of the early 1900's.

Someone has to look out for the regular guy.

 

[jwpamp]

Not sure what the answer is to this problem, but I just can't believe that these companies are paying their management MILLIONS when they can't even run the company!

If I couldn't do the job correctly, my employer would fire me, not give me a bonus! Yikes!

Perhaps if they just let them all fall down and they layoff the 3 million people that they say it will affect, the cost will be 14 Billion or less in unemployment costs, maybe it will be more, but at least the automakers would be made responsible for the problems that they have gotten themselves into....????

 

[chefjeanine]

I think the UAW made a major bone-head move. Yes, there is a great deal that management needs to improve on. . .but the union is just not getting the situation. This is a time where people are grateful to just have a job. Not a time to squeeze the life out of the situation.

I'm not sure our economy could take the hit that the collapse of the auto companies would cause. 1 out of 7 jobs is related to the auto industry. I'm not a fan of the bailout, but I have some understanding of what could happen to millions of Americans if this failed. That's why I'm furious with the UAW for not making concessions. Ridiculous! Now more than ever, I don't think the bailout should happen. These folks may need to learn a lesson the hard way. Unfortunately, this will hurt SO many of us.

I know that today my husband has to let 3 people go and tell 9 others that their positions (and pay) will be altered. He was thrilled to go to work today.

Ann, I heard on the news that most American do not support the auto bailout.

 

[chefsteph07]

I think it needs to fail and the auto industry needs to do some major reconstructuring. The unions need to GO. They are the MAIN problem.

I cannot stand how these workers at the auto plants think they are so ENTITLED.

My BIL works for a Ford plant here and he used to brag about how he would work for only 2 or 3 hrs and go home and get paid for 8 hrs. It was sickening.

They need to fall on their butts to see the real world.

 

[BethCooks4U]

Not sure what the answer is to this problem, but I just can't believe that these companies are paying their management MILLIONS when they can't even run the company!

If I couldn't do the job correctly, my employer would fire me, not give me a bonus! Yikes!

Perhaps if they just let them all fall down and they layoff the 3 million people that they say it will affect, the cost will be 14 Billion or less in unemployment costs, maybe it will be more, but at least the automakers would be made responsible for the problems that they have gotten themselves into....????

I agree.


..

 

[chefann]

Ann, I heard on the news that most American do not support the auto bailout.

The poll I saw was not that most (a majority) supported it, but that more people supported it than did not. The supporters numbered 46% of those polled. The other 54% did not support it or were undecided.

I just had a January host cancel because her department is probably being eliminated at work and she can't focus on her show. She works for county government.

 

[ChefBeckyD]

I think the UAW made a major bone-head move. Yes, there is a great deal that management needs to improve on. . .but the union is just not getting the situation. This is a time where people are grateful to just have a job. Not a time to squeeze the life out of the situation.

I'm not sure our economy could take the hit that the collapse of the auto companies would cause. 1 out of 7 jobs is related to the auto industry. I'm not a fan of the bailout, but I have some understanding of what could happen to millions of Americans if this failed. That's why I'm furious with the UAW for not making concessions. Ridiculous! Now more than ever, I don't think the bailout should happen. These folks may need to learn a lesson the hard way. Unfortunately, this will hurt SO many of us.

I know that today my husband has to let 3 people go and tell 9 others that their positions (and pay) will be altered. He was thrilled to go to work today.

Ann, I heard on the news that most American do not support the auto bailout.

THIS is exactly what I would have posted earlier if I hadn't been pressed for time.

For those that think the UAW is representing the little guy - think again! The UAW has become Big Business all the way. The UAW leaders would rather not make concessions, and let all of these workers be laid off and be out of jobs, and possibly the whole industry collapse, than give up anything at all. Do you know how much money and what kind of benefits the UAW leaders have??? Don't be fooled that they are concerned for the workers - they are only looking out for themselves - and by doing so, they are driving the Auto Industry here in Michigan into extinction.

 

[chefsteph07]

I don't understand why the auto leaders are so cocky and full of themselves to think that they DESERVE a bailout/loan, whatever. The first time around I saw news coverage that when they went to Washington in their private jets they asked for money and when Congress specifically asked how much they needed, they all stumbled upon themseleves and the DIRECT QUOTE was "uh, well, uh, it's a substantial amount"... HELLO! Did they just think that if they half assed asked they would be granted whatever they wanted?? Probably, because that's how they live their lives! And they can't give anything up to achieve the greater good of the industry that they are so desperate to have SOMEONE else save?

My grandfather worked for Ford his entire life and was the union President back in the 70's and I think he would roll in his grave today if he saw what was going on and the greed that was being displayed by this industry. He was very proud to be working at Ford at the time.

 

[BethCooks4U]

THIS is exactly what I would have posted earlier if I hadn't been pressed for time.

For those that think the UAW is representing the little guy - think again! The UAW has become Big Business all the way. The UAW leaders would rather not make concessions, and let all of these workers be laid off and be out of jobs, and possibly the whole industry collapse, than give up anything at all. Do you know how much money and what kind of benefits the UAW leaders have??? Don't be fooled that they are concerned for the workers - they are only looking out for themselves - and by doing so, they are driving the Auto Industry here in Michigan into extinction.

This is exactly why I said the union needs to be totally revamped. I am so tired of all the greed of the top people in companies - that includes the top people in unions. The idea of the union was to help the worker who was up against the big boss. This whole system is broken.

But it's not just the unions that are driving the auto industry into extinction - it's the CEO's and other top company people who are so greedy and get their bonuses even when their company is failing. It's sinful.

 

[gailz2]

I agree a lot of the problem with with the management. They need to suck it up if they want to continue to have a high paying job while the peons do all the work. However, I do believe the auto industry "workers" make a lot more than other equivalent abled workers, causing the prices to be too high. HR departments are supposed to watch out for all employees (as long as those people aren't corrupt themselves).

 

[kaseydee]

What amazes me is if any of us are fired or asked to resign we get no bonuses. If your fired you leave & get paid for your last time worked & any vacation time not used but thats it! Nothing makes me more upset than hearing about bonuses for execs that are fired.

 

[Jean DeVries]

Interesting commentary:

Zakaria: There is a U.S. auto industry that works - CNN.com

 

[pampchefrhondab]

This issue is so hard and so sad for all Americans. Without unions we would not have many of the benefits and lifestyles we have become accustom to in America. There was such a need for unions, but from my experience it's the workers who have taken way too much advantage of the benefits they have received from being in unions. Some examples:

I had a neighbor who worked for GM and every summer she lived next door to me (8 years) she would be off of work due to back trouble. Back trouble that only happened in the summer!

My husband is in management for an auto supplier which is unionized. They had a piece of equipment which broke on the second shift. They called each maintenance person in order of seniority to see if they would come in a fix it - none of them would. They could not get the piece of equipment fixed for 19 hours. Now they are working Sat. and Sun. to catch up the production. I can understand they may not want to come in if they had plans, are w/their family, etc. But the company should then be able to have a non-union person fix the equipment.

They had to have a delivery last Saturday of equip. that was missing w/the freight carrier. They didn't know what time it would arrive so instead of calling a fork lift operator in they had the supervisor run the fork lift and paid the 4 hour penalty to the most senior fork lift operator. So he got paid 4 hours for doing nothing.

These are just very small examples. There are many more I could give.

Unfortunately it has become a "world economy" and other countries are willing to take a lesser wage then Americans. We are actually coming down to their level rather then raising ourselves (or them) up. I can tell you my Dad worked for International Harvester and lived a better lifestyle then my husband and I do - we are both college graduates and my husband is in upper management. My Dad was just a factory worker.

Foreign car companies do not have the burden American car makers have with the heavy cost of pensions and health care. Not to mention people are living longer and collecting even more from those pensions; however, those foreign car companies have also not contributed as much to the American economy and tax base. It's like my Dad said when he was laid off from International Harvester. Every year the United Way came to the workers for donations and most of them gave. When they needed help (my Dad had many friends who tried to get some from them) they said, "No." Now our auto makers need help, after paying their share of taxes over the years, and our government says, "No." Not to mention it's a loan - not a handout!

I know many say they don't want the government involved in the car business, but they already are. They make the car companies meet emissions, gas mileage, etc. They made them re-tool with money they supposedly were going to give them, but the car companies haven't even received the money that was promised to them for these changes.

They (the government) can give so freely to the banks - who by the way were supposed to start lending more freely the money. Instead they use it to buy up other banks!

I just feel like Scarlet in Gone With the Wind when she saw the lifestyle of the Southern plantation owners changed forever. I feel we in America are losing our way of life and it will never be as it was.

 

[Nanisu]

Ok, I am normally cautious about unions--my disabled son is in a union for grocery store clerks and even though he's in the union the store still takes advantage of him, so we've had to get the union involved a couple of times--nothing nasty, just a "hello we know his rights" type of thing. I am still NOT a union person, but I can see how they can be valuable like for instance with my son. That said, HOLY CR*P--what are those UAW people thinking---no concessions= no bailout = no jobs!!! Sheesh!

We have 4 cars in our family. 2 foreign (Toyota) and 2 American. They all have roughly the same number of miles and the foreign ones have NO---I repeat NO problems. The American ones have stupid stuff breaking on them all the time. I guess what I don't get is its not like we just GOT foreign cars in this country--why can't the American Car Manufacturers get it right and make things that last? Sheesh--go take a tour of a Toyota factory or something and get a clue or two.

Just my $.02--no hate mail please!

 

[Lisa/ChefBear]

I'm so sick of the bailout of everything. What perks are these mortgage companies giving to me and my hubby, who for past 10 years have paid our mtg. EVERY month, on time. We might be late on another payment, or go without, but we DON'T mess with our mtg.

I have to say, Thank God, so far that's been the case. We but hubby is in a union and they are in negotations and I'm frankly very scared for his job, but I've also said, I can't give the energy to negativity, I have to Let Go and Let God, he's been good to us to this point.

I know the things UNION reps are saying is totally scaring workers, but Hubby has been checking around and checking with lawyers and such. It's so scary, if they strike, Employer IMMEDIATELY cancels your insure, you have rights under Cobra law to pay, but for family plan, that's not possible for us. With 3 out of 5 of us having pre-existing conditions, it's scary.

I think these big Execs, should be taken out and striped of ALL the perks and NO bonuses. Their mis-management/decisions made these things happen and they want rewards?? I think it's awful how great the divide is (and only getting worse) in this country of the rich; middle class; and poor.

I know in our rural area, more and more asking/needing help. Teachers couldn't even get parents or grandparents to come in and provide ingredients to make a double batch of cookies with kids. I went in for dds best friends class to help out, or it would have been cancelled, and teacher on his own (and his momma) made about 3 things.

I just hate how things are seeming to go backwards. I'm also having people say, Oh I'm sorry, I really don't think I can do shows in Jan. as I said, as everyone is struggling right now.

I think Unions need to be there, but they need re-structuring. It's the Reps that again are "Big Wigs" that aren't looking for little guys.

Execs. need to go WITHOUT pay for some time too, and no rewards or perks, they should have enough saved with what they make!!

JMHO,

Lisa

 

[pamperedlinda]

It's because the UAW won't give any concessions. If they do a bailout like that, it won't solve anything, and we will be in the same place again in another 6 months.

The UAW needs to be dissolved, IMO.

Exactly! When Delta was in trouble @ 3 years ago EVERYONE took pay cuts....EVERYONE, they weren't happy about it, but less income is better than NO income. DH is a pilot and Delta pilots are unionized - all pilots took an over 40% pay-cut....hence the reason I am a PC consultant now (DH said we could sell our house or I could get a job!). I am against helping those who are not willing to be a part of the solution.

The airline industry did not get any govt. bail-outs, they managed to save themselves (well, most of them did)