Bailout Bill Just Failed in the House...

[chefmeg]

this is what I meant about looking at the cause before trying to fix the problem. Nothing that is rushed through is ever done right~we need to take the time to look at how this happened so that we don't make the same mistakes again.

I totally agree with KG's opinion...............

 

[Hathery]

I personally just think it's a shame that our income hasn't gone up along with the cost of housing. If they had gone up equally, people wouldn't need to be taking out massive mortgages they can barely afford.

 

[janetupnorth]

I personally just think it's a shame that our income hasn't gone up along with the cost of housing. If they had gone up equally, people wouldn't need to be taking out massive mortgages they can barely afford.

I don't think its an income vs. housing issue. People are getting credit beyond their means.

People are no longer happy with their 2-3 bedroom ranch. They want the 4 bedroom, 2 bath, attached garage, big yard house. Look at SE WI, every old farm field is growing houses and condos instead of corn and cabbage.

People don't look to pay off their mortgages in 15-30 years, they look to see if they can squeak the monthly payment. If they can, who cares about long-term.

It's all about "keeping up" vs. being content with what you have.

When have you seen a 2-3 bedroom single-story house being built in the last 5 years without a garage? Not too many!

 

[janetupnorth]

On income, I make HALF of what I would with the same job in Madison or Milwaukee. It's all about choices and choosing to be responsible and content.

 

[Stampaholic1961]

Stampaholic - I like how you think!!!!

Stampaholic for President!!!!!!

I wasn't the original author of the article I posted! I received in an email and obviously I didn't check out the numbers. I would never make it as a politician! I don't play games with people's lives or lie or cheat! What the world needs is more statesmen & less politicians!

 

[ChefBeckyD]

I don't think its an income vs. housing issue. People are getting credit beyond their means.

People are no longer happy with their 2-3 bedroom ranch. They want the 4 bedroom, 2 bath, attached garage, big yard house. Look at SE WI, every old farm field is growing houses and condos instead of corn and cabbage.

People don't look to pay off their mortgages in 15-30 years, they look to see if they can squeak the monthly payment. If they can, who cares about long-term.

It's all about "keeping up" vs. being content with what you have.

When have you seen a 2-3 bedroom single-story house being built in the last 5 years without a garage? Not too many!

Exactly! :thumbup:

 

[etteluap70PC]

I don't think its an income vs. housing issue. People are getting credit beyond their means.

People are no longer happy with their 2-3 bedroom ranch. They want the 4 bedroom, 2 bath, attached garage, big yard house. Look at SE WI, every old farm field is growing houses and condos instead of corn and cabbage.

People don't look to pay off their mortgages in 15-30 years, they look to see if they can squeak the monthly payment. If they can, who cares about long-term.

It's all about "keeping up" vs. being content with what you have.

When have you seen a 2-3 bedroom single-story house being built in the last 5 years without a garage? Not too many!

Dh and I say this all the time! When we were looking to buy a home our lender would have given us $300,000 we knew we could not afford that and did not want that kind of house payment. We found a modest home, a bit smaller than we wanted with less land but in good condition. Our mortgage is less than half what the bank would have given us and although we are comfortable we do not spend alot on extras. No High speed internet, no cable or satelite tv, no big screen TV, no internet data plan on my phone. Things like that. I can not imagine having to pay double the mortgage we have now. We would be very sad house poor people.

 

[chefmeg]

yup~this has nothing to do with anything except greed! People want what they can't have or have not earned....it really is a shame that "affordable housing" is now synonomyous with "are you breathing? sign here". I just really don't think I, as a tax payer, should be responsible for getting these folks out of trouble. I know it is going to mean that we go into an economic slump or even depression, it just won't pay to buy the mortgages on these crappy loans...we won't be alone in paying for it, we will be leaving the debt for our children and grandchildren.

 

[Hathery]

I just don't agree with that.

Average household income in 1957: $5000/yr
Average household income in 2006: $48,000/yr

Average home purchase price in 1957: $2330
Average home purchase price in 2006: $212,800

And that's why families with even TWO wage earners (as wasn't the case in the 50's) can't even afford a home. Where I live, a nice 2-bedroom ranch runs nearly $200,000 a year if it's even remotely modern.

But yes...it's certainly true that lenders are extending credit far beyond the means of many homeowners. But it's not always because they want more than they can afford...their income isn't enough to ALLOW them to afford anything.

 

[janetupnorth]

I just don't agree with that.

Average household income in 1957: $5000/yr
Average household income in 2006: $48,000/yr

Average home purchase price in 1957: $2330
Average home purchase price in 2006: $212,800

And that's why families with even TWO wage earners (as wasn't the case in the 50's) can't even afford a home. Where I live, a nice 2-bedroom ranch runs nearly $200,000 a year if it's even remotely modern.

But yes...it's certainly true that lenders are extending credit far beyond the means of many homeowners. But it's not always because they want more than they can afford...their income isn't enough to ALLOW them to afford anything.

But your stats prove EXACTLY that!

Average home purchase prices are far exceeding what people SHOULD be buying.

You can bet ANY money that the "average home" in 1957 is not the size and lot size of an average home in 2006.

 

[janetupnorth]

I just don't agree with that.

Average household income in 1957: $5000/yr
Average household income in 2006: $48,000/yr

Average home purchase price in 1957: $2330
Average home purchase price in 2006: $212,800

And that's why families with even TWO wage earners (as wasn't the case in the 50's) can't even afford a home. Where I live, a nice 2-bedroom ranch runs nearly $200,000 a year if it's even remotely modern.

But yes...it's certainly true that lenders are extending credit far beyond the means of many homeowners. But it's not always because they want more than they can afford...their income isn't enough to ALLOW them to afford anything.

Where are your stats from Hathery? They do not match the US Census Bureau income stats.

 

[janetupnorth]

The 1957 medium income in dollars then was $4966, in 2006 dollars it is $30,444.
The 2006 medium income in 2006 dollars is $58,407.Source: US Census Bureau - All families, all races chart.

 

[etteluap70PC]

EX: my home is 40 years old and luckily very well kept up. I would considder it an average 2 bedroom rambler with a non finished basement and an attached garage on 1 acre of land. 20 years ago this home sold for arround 45,000, we purchased it 3 years ago just before prices began to drop for $140,000. The reasonable homes are out there you just have to know your limits.

And as others have stated people feel so entitled to have a big home with all the extras. That once the banks say "we will approve you for this much $" they just say yayyyy I can have everything I want!

Would I like a larger home and not be sleeping in my basement so my children could have seperate rooms? Um yeah... would I like more land so I did not worry so much about my pets getting run over by crazy drivers on my busy road? yes! Would I like a modern kitchen with granite countertops? You betcha! But would I get those things and not be able to spend any time with my kids or be able to have them take swimming lessons etc? Heck no!

 

[janetupnorth]

Where are your stats from Hathery? They do not match the US Census Bureau income stats.

Forget my question, I found those stats on a blog without sources quoted.

 

[Hathery]

Forget my question, I found those stats on a blog without sources quoted.

I know, I couldn't find the sources either. Do you have the US census stats for average home prices?

 

[Hathery]

EX: my home is 40 years old and luckily very well kept up. I would considder it an average 2 bedroom rambler with a non finished basement and an attached garage on 1 acre of land. 20 years ago this home sold for arround 45,000, we purchased it 3 years ago just before prices began to drop for $140,000. The reasonable homes are out there you just have to know your limits.

And as others have stated people feel so entitled to have a big home with all the extras. That once the banks say "we will approve you for this much $" they just say yayyyy I can have everything I want!

Would I like a larger home and not be sleeping in my basement so my children could have seperate rooms? Um yeah... would I like more land so I did not worry so much about my pets getting run over by crazy drivers on my busy road? yes! Would I like a modern kitchen with granite countertops? You betcha! But would I get those things and not be able to spend any time with my kids or be able to have them take swimming lessons etc? Heck no!

Again, it seriously depends where you live. What's "reasonable" in one place is not "practical" in another. Back where I grew up in the Fox Cities, you could get a gorgeous home for $89,000 if you wanted. Here where I live now, you can get a mobile home or a saltbox house (if you're lucky.) Granted income is a bit higher here, but not when you have government jobs where the income is the same state-wide. Our money just doesn't go as far here. To say we feel "entitled" to a large home is ridiculous, but we do feel entitled to A home. We live in a 2-bedroom condo, and had to borrow money to meet the downpayment and have a WHEDA loan to help us with the interest rates. We were lucky that way; not everyone is.

 

[janetupnorth]

Again, it seriously depends where you live. What's "reasonable" in one place is not "practical" in another. Back where I grew up in the Fox Cities, you could get a gorgeous home for $89,000 if you wanted. Here where I live now, you can get a mobile home or a saltbox house (if you're lucky.) Granted income is a bit higher here, but not when you have government jobs where the income is the same state-wide. Our money just doesn't go as far here. To say we feel "entitled" to a large home is ridiculous, but we do feel entitled to A home. We live in a 2-bedroom condo, and had to borrow money to meet the downpayment and have a WHEDA loan to help us with the interest rates. We were lucky that way; not everyone is.

But homes wouldn't be so pricey in your area if Freddie and Fannie weren't put into existence as they were. We are on the bursting bubble of a mess that has been building for years.

Don't feel bad...estimated median income here is: $42,300
State est. median income: $48,772

Est. median house value here: $173,000
Wisconsin overall: $163,500

Source: City-data.com

Our town's per capita income is only $20,392.

There are disparities everywhere.

 

[janetupnorth]

I know, I couldn't find the sources either. Do you have the US census stats for average home prices?

Not without doing some serious digging because that is much more regional at times. Realtor organizations keep good statistics usually.

 

[amy07]

I don't think its an income vs. housing issue. People are getting credit beyond their means.

People are no longer happy with their 2-3 bedroom ranch. They want the 4 bedroom, 2 bath, attached garage, big yard house. Look at SE WI, every old farm field is growing houses and condos instead of corn and cabbage.

People don't look to pay off their mortgages in 15-30 years, they look to see if they can squeak the monthly payment. If they can, who cares about long-term.

It's all about "keeping up" vs. being content with what you have.

When have you seen a 2-3 bedroom single-story house being built in the last 5 years without a garage? Not too many!

I agree with your comments. And seeing how this is the first time that I have posted on any of the "heated" threads, please be kind and patient with me!

However, my family and I do live in one of those 4 BR, 2.5 BA homes with a HUGE yard (5 acres to be exact, mostly wooded) BUT this is how we differ from many of the "Jones'":

When DH & I married, he owned (or should I say, had a mortgage) a home and so did I. We then sold my home at a nice profit and paid off a car loan (mine).
We then invested the remaining $$, anticipating a new home for a growing family. We bought land and put a VERY NICE earnest money deposit down with a builder for a home of our choice to stay in for the next 30+ years! Was it going to be bigger than we needed at the time (and even now). Yes! But, we also knew that as our children grew (3 now) that we would eventually probably have them around even after their college years (seems it takes longer nowadays to get and KEEP them out of the nest). And 5 grown people (or even teenaged) in one house can probably seem kind of cramped.

So, between putting a contact to build on a new home and selling our existing house the market turned to a seller's market BIG TIME! But here's the kicker, our existing home did NOT close prior to closing on the new one! Thankfully, because we SAVED THE MONEY from the sale of my home we could close on the new one.

Now, this is what has ALWAYS bothered my DH: what if our existing home had NEVER closed?!?! Our bank was still going to/AND DID give us the NEW mortgage! Even with the other mortgage not paid off!! Why? Because we had good credit! Does that mean that we could've afforded BOTH mortagages? Heck no! Now, granted in the bank's perspective we DID have a contract on the house. But whose to say that it didn't fall thru? It was a risk that DH & I took as well. (we did have enough in savings to carry us for awhile if we did have to make 2 mortgages.) Keep in mind that during this time period, houses often had contracts on them before they ever "officially" hit the MLS. That's how HOT the market was.

Shortly after closing on our OLD house we decided to refinance our "new" mortgage. Why? Because we wanted to put the profit $$ down to lower our payment to one we were comfortable with.

So, what's my point? We actually owe less on our 4 BR, 2.5 BA 3-story than our 3BR/1.5 BA rambler. Why? Because we didn't refinance to cover debt/ acquire more than we could afford. Even in today's lousy housing market our home would not be sold at a "loss".

The flip side is that we could've EASILY spent the $$ from the sale of our house instead, and "kept up with the Jones'". It would've been very easy to say "but the Bank says we can afford the payment". But we made a choice! Had we decided to get new furniture/cars, would the bank have bailed us out for making wrong decisions?

This whole mess makes Suze Orman's words ring louder and louder in my ear: YOU DO NOT FIX MONEY PROBLEMS WITH MONEY!!

same can be said for credit.

 

[janetupnorth]

Amy - Kudos for wise decisions and working hard! You guys DESERVE your house/land!

 

[etteluap70PC]

Again, it seriously depends where you live. What's "reasonable" in one place is not "practical" in another. Back where I grew up in the Fox Cities, you could get a gorgeous home for $89,000 if you wanted. Here where I live now, you can get a mobile home or a saltbox house (if you're lucky.) Granted income is a bit higher here, but not when you have government jobs where the income is the same state-wide. Our money just doesn't go as far here. To say we feel "entitled" to a large home is ridiculous, but we do feel entitled to A home. We live in a 2-bedroom condo, and had to borrow money to meet the downpayment and have a WHEDA loan to help us with the interest rates. We were lucky that way; not everyone is.

I understand where you are coming from... in some areas it is rediculous. My brother and his wife are going thru trying to get a first home and are having a terrible time. They both work, he has a great employment reccord and has worked his way up in the 3 companies he has worked for over the last 10 years. They pay 1300.00 a month in rent for a tiny apartment but have no money to set asside especially with baby #2 due any day. They are having a terrible time getting a loan of any kind because of all this mess. He is 31 years old and has worked very hard although no always made the best $ choices. I do have hope for them though. I hope it will make them more diligent in their search. And hopefully they will be more likely to find something they will be able to afford over time.

I will also say that I believe that the prices of homes got so rediculous partially because people started building bigger and better to excess back when the ecomomy was booming. People just asumed everything would keep going. If we had not gotten so greedy as a nation maybee things would have stayen on more even ground.

Ok I got a bit off track and lost where I was going with all this. Lets just say the housing market is a mess! My family has been responsible with our $ why should I pay for all the greedy people why tried to live beyond their means?

 

[etteluap70PC]

Amy - Kudos for wise decisions and working hard! You guys DESERVE your house/land!

Yes definetly!


You are part of the 95% of people who do things the right way.


I have NO issues with anything you posted.

 

[amy07]

Thank you Janet!

But I just wanted to show how easy it would've been to fall into the "trap". Even some of my dear friends who WORK in finance (freddie & fannie included) are into this mess up to their eyeballs by playing the refinance/credit games!

It is truly sad that those who are losing their homes have no recourse, but the financial giants are getting the bail-out...........I understand the reasoning........I understand the need........I understand even more that this will be felt for generations to come.......

 

[amy07]

Yes definetly!


You are part of the 95% of people who do things the right way.


I have NO issues with anything you posted.

LOL! Actually I do have 1 issue. We sold that sports car that was paid off to get a more practical car (used & paid for as well). :cry::cry::cry:
I still get misty eyed every now and then*********BIG Sigh*******

 

[Hathery]

You're very lucky to have come into that financial situation. If I had to save up or whatever to buy a home, I wouldn't buy a home til I'm retired (if I'm lucky.)

Some people were definitely greedy with their want, want, want of a home out of their league, but I really don't think that was the case with most people. Most people were just hoping to live the American dream of owning a home (when in reality that dream has really been obliterated and that lifestyle is well outside of most Americans' grasps.) Greedy lenders did take advantage of these people and give them false hope that they could live this lifestyle, and did offer them mortgages that they knew the borrowers could never pay back. I don't think it's fair to assume that all these borrowers were just being greedy though...many just wanted to offer a good life for their familes and themselves. It's sad really. I just pray nothing happens to me or my husband, or we'll be in that boat too, with people calling us "greedy" for having wanted to purchase a home and no longer being able to afford it.

 

[Hathery]

I agree with your comments. And seeing how this is the first time that I have posted on any of the "heated" threads, please be kind and patient with me!

However, my family and I do live in one of those 4 BR, 2.5 BA homes with a HUGE yard (5 acres to be exact, mostly wooded) BUT this is how we differ from many of the "Jones'":

When DH & I married, he owned (or should I say, had a mortgage) a home and so did I. We then sold my home at a nice profit and paid off a car loan (mine).
We then invested the remaining $$, anticipating a new home for a growing family. We bought land and put a VERY NICE earnest money deposit down with a builder for a home of our choice to stay in for the next 30+ years! Was it going to be bigger than we needed at the time (and even now). Yes! But, we also knew that as our children grew (3 now) that we would eventually probably have them around even after their college years (seems it takes longer nowadays to get and KEEP them out of the nest). And 5 grown people (or even teenaged) in one house can probably seem kind of cramped.

So, between putting a contact to build on a new home and selling our existing house the market turned to a seller's market BIG TIME! But here's the kicker, our existing home did NOT close prior to closing on the new one! Thankfully, because we SAVED THE MONEY from the sale of my home we could close on the new one.

Now, this is what has ALWAYS bothered my DH: what if our existing home had NEVER closed?!?! Our bank was still going to/AND DID give us the NEW mortgage! Even with the other mortgage not paid off!! Why? Because we had good credit! Does that mean that we could've afforded BOTH mortagages? Heck no! Now, granted in the bank's perspective we DID have a contract on the house. But whose to say that it didn't fall thru? It was a risk that DH & I took as well. (we did have enough in savings to carry us for awhile if we did have to make 2 mortgages.) Keep in mind that during this time period, houses often had contracts on them before they ever "officially" hit the MLS. That's how HOT the market was.

Shortly after closing on our OLD house we decided to refinance our "new" mortgage. Why? Because we wanted to put the profit $$ down to lower our payment to one we were comfortable with.

So, what's my point? We actually owe less on our 4 BR, 2.5 BA 3-story than our 3BR/1.5 BA rambler. Why? Because we didn't refinance to cover debt/ acquire more than we could afford. Even in today's lousy housing market our home would not be sold at a "loss".

The flip side is that we could've EASILY spent the $$ from the sale of our house instead, and "kept up with the Jones'". It would've been very easy to say "but the Bank says we can afford the payment". But we made a choice! Had we decided to get new furniture/cars, would the bank have bailed us out for making wrong decisions?

This whole mess makes Suze Orman's words ring louder and louder in my ear: YOU DO NOT FIX MONEY PROBLEMS WITH MONEY!!

same can be said for credit.

With your personal story, you're very lucky it was a seller's market. Had you tried to do this today, you'd probably have sold your house for less than you paid (if you sold it at all.) You invested and it paid off...many people have invested in real estate and seen their investment go down the toilet. Doesn't mean they don't "deserve" a nice house because they invested at the wrong time.

 

[amy07]

You're very lucky to have come into that financial situation. If I had to save up or whatever to buy a home, I wouldn't buy a home til I'm retired (if I'm lucky.)

Some people were definitely greedy with their want, want, want of a home out of their league, but I really don't think that was the case with most people. Most people were just hoping to live the American dream of owning a home (when in reality that dream has really been obliterated and that lifestyle is well outside of most Americans' grasps.) Greedy lenders did take advantage of these people and give them false hope that they could live this lifestyle, and did offer them mortgages that they knew the borrowers could never pay back. I don't think it's fair to assume that all these borrowers were just being greedy though...many just wanted to offer a good life for their familes and themselves. It's sad really. I just pray nothing happens to me or my husband, or we'll be in that boat too, with people calling us "greedy" for having wanted to purchase a home and no longer being able to afford it.

You're right, there were definitely some shady lenders out there. But buyer beware should always be the motto of anyone looking to buy even a pack of gum!!
When I bought my first home (which I did as a single mother) I was scared to death. I definitely wanted a secure home for my child and I. BUT I also walked away from several lenders when it "just didn't feel right". No matter how desperate I was to secure the house I knew that if I couldn't sleep worrying about the terms then it wasn't the deal for me. I had to learn to delay that "want it now". Looking back at this housing mess now, those loans I turned down would've had me over a barrel! I'm talking about piggy backs to avoid PMI, prepayment penalties, etc. The buyer holds the responsibility too - nobody forces anyone to sign on the dotted line!

 

[ltkacz]

Amy07 - I couldn't agree with you more - buyer BEWARE. Sure there are some shaddy lenders out there - but lets be honest...there are with any type of business. No one forced anyone to sign on the dotted line. Come on, the people taking out mortgages they know they couldn't afford - SHAME ON THEM. I don't care how much they "wanted the american dream". Did they not think they had utilities, food, insurance, emergency needs, 401ks to contribute to as well?? Where in the world were their common sense?!

 

[mrssyvo]

We moved into our weekend home last March, and put our previous home on the market. There have been no offers, due to the economy, and this mess, and our realtor just keeps wanting us to lower our price (we have already reduced it $50,000 since March. We have decided to take it off the market until things improve, and rent it out to my brother. I feel really bad for those who do not have that option.

 

[Stampaholic1961]

Amy07 - Where in the world were their common sense?!

Didn't you get the email? Common sense died! Quite some time ago. I'll see if I can find the email with the details!!!

 

[Hathery]

We moved into our weekend home last March, and put our previous home on the market. There have been no offers, due to the economy, and this mess, and our realtor just keeps wanting us to lower our price (we have already reduced it $50,000 since March. We have decided to take it off the market until things improve, and rent it out to my brother. I feel really bad for those who do not have that option.

Thank you, this is kind of my point. Not everyone is fortunate enough to land in really great situations; some people took out loans they *thought* they could afford (not necessarily understanding fully how loans work), and now are in a mess. We can't assume everyone knew what they were getting into. It isn't right on their part not to be fully informed, but since when are most people informed about most things??

 

[Belle4562]

But it is your responsibility to educate yourself on how loans work before you sign on the dotted line.

 

[JAE]

Nobody is entitled to owning a home. Nobody.

 

[Hathery]

But it is your responsibility to educate yourself on how loans work before you sign on the dotted line.

Yep, it sure is. But some people didn't and were taken advantage of. It might have been stupidity, but it wasn't greed that put them where they are.

 

[Hathery]

Nobody is entitled to owning a home. Nobody.

Explain, please.

 

[janetupnorth]

Yep, it sure is. But some people didn't and were taken advantage of. It might have been stupidity, but it wasn't greed that put them where they are.

No we said greed was on the part of the lenders, entitlement was the attitude of the buyers...

 

[janetupnorth]

Explain, please.

Please also explain your comment of thinking everyone has the right to own a home. I think that is what JAE is commenting on.

I am not entitled to a home, car, whatever, I must work and pay for it. Sometimes the work to get it is a bigger stretch for me than someone else. But I have the right to move if I want to where it is easier not make the government rules comply to my situation to give it to me...

 

[jenne]

We were at the zoo last weekend and saw something hanging on a wall that just shows our entitlement mentality in this country. It stated that all people have the same "basic needs". They listed these "basic needs" as a home, food, clothing, education, leadership, and healthcare. WHAT??? I remember NEEDS being food, shelter and clothing. The rest are WANTS...we do not need them to survive. Now..that doesn't mean in my opinion that everyone is entitled to owning a home that they cannot afford! We live in a trailer house on 20 acres of land. We have child #4 on the way. We made some poor financial decisions in the past (though none that were HUGE, just not the best idea looking back now). We have a small mortgage...probably only 1/4 of what MOST people have. We are in the process of building a 2200 square foot home, but you know what? We aren't asking the bank for any more money. We will live in a less than "perfect" home until our new home is done and we're living totally debt free. I COULD live in a house MUCH more than I am right now...we COULD go to the bank and get the $$ to finish a beautiful home, but we are trying to be financially responsible with regards to our home. I am not entitled to the nice big fancy home I WANT...I have shelter, that NEED is being met. People need to learn to determine what is a WANT and what is truely a NEED. That may be a lesson that is learned the hard way from this economic mess our country has gotten itself into I guess.

ETA...the capitals are to add emphasis...I am not at all attacking anyone with this post.

 

[Hathery]

Please also explain your comment of thinking everyone has the right to own a home. I think that is what JAE is commenting on.

I am not entitled to a home, car, whatever, I must work and pay for it. Sometimes the work to get it is a bigger stretch for me than someone else. But I have the right to move if I want to where it is easier not make the government rules comply to my situation to give it to me...

I do believe everyone is entitled to shelter, and it should be the government's responsibility to ensure it is affordable for its people. That's what I mean by everyone has the right to own a home (or rent an apartment for that matter.)

Yes, people have the right to move, but it's not economically viable to just pick up and move somewhere else. It takes a lot of money to move, unless you plan to live on the street...

 

[JAE]

I do believe everyone is entitled to shelter, and it should be the government's responsibility to ensure it is affordable for its people. That's what I mean by everyone has the right to own a home (or rent an apartment for that matter.)

Yes, people have the right to move, but it's not economically viable to just pick up and move somewhere else. It takes a lot of money to move, unless you plan to live on the street...

That is the difference between you and some of us who don't back Obama. I don't believe it should be the government's responsibility to ensure housing is affordable, either. The government should ensure that people obey laws and they should protect us from those who don't obey laws. If the people involved in this money mess broke laws the government should punish them.

 

[Stampaholic1961]

Let Congress Know How Mad You Are
About Corrupt Executives —
Demand They Return Those Bonuses!Corrupt executives and Wall Street financiers have made a mess of the mortgage business and many have escaped with multi-million dollar bonuses SHARE THIS WITH A FRIEND!

September 30, 2008 – There is a lot of talk on Wall Street and Capitol Hill about a $700 billion taxpayer-funded bailout but little talk of recouping the outrageous "performance bonuses" paid to the very executives who engineered this disaster. A good example is Franklin Raines, former head of Fannie Mae, who recently settled a case with the U.S. government over his alleged involvement in overstating profits to the tune of more than $6 billion. Raines, who received total compensation of more than $91.1 million between 1998 and 2004, is keeping virtually all of that money! He will likely ride out the coming financial storm at his luxury vacation home in Bermuda while the rest of America struggles to pay their winter heating bills and fill up their gas tanks.According to the U.S. Census, the median household income last year was $50,233.00. But according to Bloomberg News, the five biggest Wall Street firms - the same entities that created this mess - in 2007 paid out $38 BILLION in bonuses, for an average of $201,500 per employee or four times the median income - and this is the BONUS we're talking about, not their salaries and other perks. Some examples:
Lehman Brothers Chairman and CEO Richard Fuld Jr. received $34 million. Lehman recently filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy.
AIG chief executive, Martin Sullivan, received $14 million in compensation. Sullivan was fired last June and AIG recently received an $85 billion taxpayer-funded bailout.
Merrill Lynch CEO John Thain received $17 million. Bank of America is acquiring Merrill Lynch at a sizeable discount.
We at Traditional Values Coalition want to know, "Where is the outrage? Why aren't these executives being hauled before Congress and the courts to explain themselves, to repay their bonuses BEFORE we're asked to pay our taxes? While the American taxpayer may not have billions in bonus money, we do have one thing going for us: A very nervous Congress facing reelection. NOW is the time to sound off to tell your lawmakers how you feel about this outrage. Please click here to sound off and demand that Congress examine every bonus, and where unethical behavior/fraud is discovered, make sure that the money is returned to offset at least some of what is being asked of each of us. Remember, it's YOUR money they're talking about.

 

[lockhartkitchen]

It means we are on shaky grounds. DO NOT CHARGE ANYTHING! If you can't afford it buy buying it with cash....don't charge it. Most likely, interest rates will increase, credit card companies will start slashing your available credit limits. We are just too much of a risk right now.

Loans will start to be nearly impossible to get...due to risk. Watch your budget, live within your means, and ride it out. That's about it in a nutshell.

For those of us wanting houses, unless you have a perfect score, and I do mean perfect, they aren't loaning. Not even with higher interests rates, which used to be an option. I just found an owner carry contract. It was the only way we were going to get back into a house.

 

[JAE]

I don't believe that the government should be putting their fingers in this mess by capping salaries. If people have broken the law, they should be prosecuted. The government capping salaries means the government is putting their noses where they don't belong. We want this country to be a free country. Bigger government means less freedom and way more taxes.

 

[Kitchen Diva]

But it is your responsibility to educate yourself on how loans work before you sign on the dotted line.

And there isn't one title company out there that doesn't explain "this is what your payment will be for X years...once your ARM resets...it will go up by X amount which will make your payment X much more...

It's in their paperwork...go check your loan papers. I had people that I explained their loans to them once a week for weeks on end...put things in writing, sent emails, letters, etc- Even at closing we went over their payment, showed that it matched the Good Faith Estimate and the Hud-1... I'd still get calls on occasion from people asking me "why is my payment so much?" I'd be like, um...it's the same payment that I told you would be what you could afford- and you wanted to buy more house, and I wouldn't let you...you have umpteen emails from me, and closing documents, and letters etc- that show that you KNEW what your payment was going to be...

Graned I NEVER put anyone in an ARM loan. I didn't not believe in them.

 

[Kitchen Diva]

That is the difference between you and some of us who don't back Obama. I don't believe it should be the government's responsibility to ensure housing is affordable, either. The government should ensure that people obey laws and they should protect us from those who don't obey laws. If the people involved in this money mess broke laws the government should punish them.

I agree- Adam and Eve didn't have a house... You would think that God would have at least built them a house- but He didn't. They had trees and leaves for shelter...

The government needs to back off before there is an uprising.

I also do not think it is the governments job to ensure affordable housing- that is why we are in the mess we are in. People need to get off their tooshy's and WORK to buy a house. If you cannot- then rent.

I'm waiting for the FBI to broaden their investigation into this "housing collapse"

Not that this really goes along with what we are talking about here, but I'm so sure that more of our civil liberties will be striped from us if Obama wins that DH and I are going out to purchase a gun, take shooting lessons and of course, get a conceal and carry permit. Oh, and I'm buying a pitchfork. just in case we need to storm the castle gates!

 

[amy07]

You're very lucky to have come into that financial situation. If I had to save up or whatever to buy a home, I wouldn't buy a home til I'm retired (if I'm lucky.)

"With your personal story, you're very lucky it was a seller's market. Had you tried to do this today, you'd probably have sold your house for less than you paid (if you sold it at all.) You invested and it paid off...many people have invested in real estate and seen their investment go down the toilet. Doesn't mean they don't "deserve" a nice house because they invested at the wrong time."

I'm curious as to why you say my family and I are lucky? Luck had nothing to do with it. Both my DH & I both worked very hard to save/buy our first homes, individually. There was no luck involved, unless searching and waiting for a house that was affordable to our individual budgets is getting lucky. We made HUGE sacrifices that many of our comtemporary friends could/would not make. Examples: We each drove older cars with no payments (mine mentioned in my story came AFTER the home), little to no credit card debt, we both brown-bagged it for work lunches. I shopped second-hand stores/yard sales both for household needs, clothing, even scratch & dent grocery.

We NEVER approached purchasing a home as a means to an investment vehicle to go on to bigger/better. It was housing. It wasn't/is not a status symbol to us. We made do until we could afford (comfortably) to change our housing situation. We also built, that is a HUGE difference. And it was bare bones. NO granite or upgraded cabinetry or flooring. Heck, we still have plain white walls. And keep in mind that our current home was built during the "sellers" market. So, if we had to sell right this very minute, no we would not be at a loss. Nor, for the other homes. Why?
1. Because we planned! AND researched, researched, researched our lending options.
2. We have never borrowed against our equity to acquire more. Do I want more? heck yeah! But I NEED more to know that my family has stable/secure housing.

Luck was not involved. It was/is intentional planning AND saving.

 

[Kitchen Diva]

I'm curious as to why you say my family and I are lucky? Luck had nothing to do with it. Both my DH & I both worked very hard to save/buy our first homes, individually. There was no luck involved, unless searching and waiting for a house that was affordable to our individual budgets is getting lucky. We made HUGE sacrifices that many of our comtemporary friends could/would not make. Examples: We each drove older cars with no payments (mine mentioned in my story came AFTER the home), little to no credit card debt, we both brown-bagged it for work lunches. I shopped second-hand stores/yard sales both for household needs, clothing, even scratch & dent grocery.

We NEVER approached purchasing a home as a means to an investment vehicle to go on to bigger/better. It was housing. It wasn't/is not a status symbol to us. We made do until we could afford (comfortably) to change our housing situation. We also built, that is a HUGE difference. And it was bare bones. NO granite or upgraded cabinetry or flooring. Heck, we still have plain white walls. And keep in mind that our current home was built during the "sellers" market. So, if we had to sell right this very minute, no we would not be at a loss. Nor, for the other homes. Why?
1. Because we planned! AND researched, researched, researched our lending options.
2. We have never borrowed against our equity to acquire more. Do I want more? heck yeah! But I NEED more to know that my family has stable/secure housing.

Luck was not involved. It was/is intentional planning AND saving.

Amen to that (to the luck isn't involved!) Good for you and your DH for rolling up your sleves and being all American and WORKING hard and sacrificing and scrimping and saving and doing without at times!

It's hard to do without! I've been doing without Antonio Banderas for years! His wife apparently NEEDS him, so he can't be with me. (sniff, sniff) (sorry, just injecting a wee bit 'o humor, I'm punchy today)

 

[janetupnorth]

Amen to that (to the luck isn't involved!) Good for you and your DH for rolling up your sleves and being all American and WORKING hard and sacrificing and scrimping and saving and doing without at times!

It's hard to do without! I've been doing without Antonio Banderas for years! His wife apparently NEEDS him, so he can't be with me. (sniff, sniff) (sorry, just injecting a wee bit 'o humor, I'm punchy today)

Kacey - you crack me up - I've never been ga-ga and drooling over movie stars and bands so it is hilarious to me. Lucky for DH, he is all I need and I don't think to look at others.

I want to once again say "way to go Amy and DH". They do deserve kudos for working hard! Thank you for being responsible!

 

[Hathery]

I'm curious as to why you say my family and I are lucky? Luck had nothing to do with it. Both my DH & I both worked very hard to save/buy our first homes, individually. There was no luck involved, unless searching and waiting for a house that was affordable to our individual budgets is getting lucky. We made HUGE sacrifices that many of our comtemporary friends could/would not make. Examples: We each drove older cars with no payments (mine mentioned in my story came AFTER the home), little to no credit card debt, we both brown-bagged it for work lunches. I shopped second-hand stores/yard sales both for household needs, clothing, even scratch & dent grocery.

We NEVER approached purchasing a home as a means to an investment vehicle to go on to bigger/better. It was housing. It wasn't/is not a status symbol to us. We made do until we could afford (comfortably) to change our housing situation. We also built, that is a HUGE difference. And it was bare bones. NO granite or upgraded cabinetry or flooring. Heck, we still have plain white walls. And keep in mind that our current home was built during the "sellers" market. So, if we had to sell right this very minute, no we would not be at a loss. Nor, for the other homes. Why?
1. Because we planned! AND researched, researched, researched our lending options.
2. We have never borrowed against our equity to acquire more. Do I want more? heck yeah! But I NEED more to know that my family has stable/secure housing.Luck was not involved. It was/is intentional planning AND saving.

I meant you were in luck that it was a seller's market. If you were trying to do the same thing right now, it wouldn't happen. Many people would like to be in your situation and be able to have homes that appreciated in value that they could sell for profit, but it won't happen for them for quite a while.I'm not saying you and you hubby didnt' work hard for what you have; you clearly did and you definitely deserve it. I'm just saying that alot of people aren't able to be in your type of situation right now because of the current housing market. It's not that they deserve it any less, or didn't make the right decisions.

 

[Hathery]

That is the difference between you and some of us who don't back Obama. I don't believe it should be the government's responsibility to ensure housing is affordable, either. The government should ensure that people obey laws and they should protect us from those who don't obey laws. If the people involved in this money mess broke laws the government should punish them.

The "government" doesn't punish people for crimes. The criminal justice system does. The government is meant to look out for the people it governs; I believe making sure people have shelter falls under the "looking out for us" category. If they can't even do that for us, we may as well not even have a government. We already have a constitution, so we should just hire law enforcement to enforce it by your definition of government.