Pre-K vs Kindergarten: Considering Holding Back My DD for Social Readiness

[KellyTheChef]

Okay another teacher's point of view.

If she is accademics ready I say send her. The social skills will come eventually. I would not stress over this, it was a suggestion. Now I would also hold off on saying anything to the kinder teacher for a few months and wait to see what her/his observations are. Now if for some reason she is not ready for first grade I would hold her back in Kinder.

As a teacher I try not to hold students back, but I go on academics first then social behavior. When I first started working in Kinder, going through the credential program. There was a boy who was not ready academics & socially. His b-day was mid July, & his mom said no. Later on at a different school I was job sharing w/ a 3rd grade and this student is on our list(he should have been 4th). It turns out he had to repeat 3rd grade (which was a lot harder socially on him in 3rd grade than it would have been in kinder).

I have a friend now w/ a son who is 3rd & has struggled in all areas academics, socially & now his teacher wants to hold him back. She doesn't want to hold him back because how it will effect him & is willing to let him to struggle w/ academics because he's struggled all his school career. (this is not to scare you, just stay aware)

Amanda...my brother went through this! He struggled and struggled through school. They wanted to hold him back in 1st grade, but my dad said no...he thought that my mom was just "babying" him since he was the youngest. Then....all the way in FIFTH GRADE they had to hold him back! He didn't like school to begin with, since he was having such a hard time academically, and then since they waited way too long to hold him back, he was totally scarred emotionally and hated school even more from that point on!

Anyhow...this situation is different! You still have time to see how she adjusts to k-garten and you can decide from there!

 

[wadesgirl]

Okay another teacher's point of view.

If she is ready with academics I say send her. The social skills will come eventually. I would not stress over this, it was a suggestion. Now I would also hold off on saying anything to the kinder teacher for a few months and wait to see what her/his observations are. Now if for some reason she is not ready for first grade I would hold her back in Kinder.

As a teacher I try not to hold students back, but I go on academics first then social behavior. When I first started working in Kinder, going through the credential program. There was a boy who was not ready academics & socially. His b-day was mid July, & his mom said no. Later on at a different school I was job sharing w/ a 3rd grade and this student is on our list(he should have been 4th). It turns out he had to repeat 3rd grade (which was a lot harder socially on him in 3rd grade than it would have been in kinder).

I have a friend now w/ a son who is 3rd & has struggled in all areas academics, socially & now his teacher wants to hold him back. My friend doesn't want to hold him back because how it will effect him & is willing to let him to struggle w/ academics because he's struggled all his school career. (this is not to scare you, just stay aware)

I totally agree on this! We had two kids in my first grade class that were repeats. The teachers told them and us that they were staying behind to help us new first graders get used to being in first grade (kindergarten was only half day). We were young enough to believe it but I think any older, kids realize why you get held back and teasing is not very nice.

 

[hperschnick]

My bday is Sept 1 and that was the cutoff when I was to start school. My parents started me the next year so I was always the oldest in the class. I was very immature socially though SUPER shy (something that didn't change until I was in college and experienced a life altering event...). If your DD hasn't been around other kids that is probably part of the immaturity and should adjust itself as she gets used to the interractions. You know your DD and what is best and as others have said... you can always hold her back in K if you see that she needs it. Pre-K is just practice so they can adjust to the schedule of school. If she is ready acadademically she may be very bored doing it all over again.

Good luck!

 

[dianevill]

Is there a way you can take your daughter to kindergarten for a day, NOW, just to give her the experience and see how she handles it? You mentioned she'll be going to a private school. Do you know who her teacher would be? Talk to her and get HER opinion.

My daughter is an August child and I wasn't sure what to do back when she was that age, so I did as I advised above. She went to the school and sat in for the morning. The teacher said she was more than ready, so we let her go. She's doing just fine...

 

[Shawnna]

As an early childhood teacher and the daughter of a teacher I would not hold her back if she is academically ready. If she does well on the Kindergarten entry "test" she will be fine. You can't judge now how mature she will be 6 months from now. At that age they are growing and changing daily.

When I went to school the cut-off was Nov. 1st and my birthday is Oct 28th so I was the youngest in my class. My parents worked with me a lot at home, so I was reading before Kindergarten. I was the Valedictorian of my class. The Salutatorian was the second youngest in our class - Oct. 15th birthday. But, kids are expected to know so much these days. They are pushed too hard. What they learn in "HeadStart" is what they used to learn in Kindergarten and now they can have 2 years of HeadStart, then Pre-K, and then Kindergarten.

I have 2 children who are spring babies, so they are the oldest in their classes. They will both turn 18 just before graduating. My youngest is an Oct. baby, so he had to wait an extra year before going to school because of the Sept. 1 cutoff. Instead of daycare, he went to "HeadStart" for 2 years. The second year he was bored out of his mind. Then he went to Pre-K and Kindergarten and still struggles with being bored on a daily basis. He is in the 6th grade. Most kids have tons of homework, but he rarely has any. He is in the top of his class, but he is also a lot older than they are.

Every child is different. You are the best judge for your daughter. So, my suggestion is to send her to Kindergarten. I can almost bet by the time Kindergarten is over she will be on the same maturity level as the others. Kindergarten teachers should expect some silliness...these are young children.

 

[heather223]

I acutally dealt with this and my son last year. He was in a pre-k/ daycare and has a Sept. 27 birthday. I was having issues with him at daycare (behavior) and we had him tested as special needs thinking that that may be the cause of his behavior issues. He wasn't special needs, but actually bored and not challenged at Pre-k/ daycare. We decided that it was best to give Kindergarten a try. The princpal at his school and the K teacher that he would have tested him and said yes it was ok to enroll him, but that he was socially not mature but they would deal with it. We did struggle most of the year (Josh was very very often the lowest scoring student), but we also came to find out my son is ADHD. I told his K teacher that worse case if he didn't socially catch up by the end of K we would have him repeat. She looked at me like I was stupid and said in my 20 years of teaching I have never had a student repeat for that reason! It was a very rough year with this teacher, but so worth it. Well long story short Josh not only passed K but moved on to 1st grade and is not having any issues this year. It was so nice to go to conference and have his teacher say that he was doing better than most of her students!

Give it a try and worse case your child may have to repeat. They catch up when you least expect it! :chef:

 

[chefbritt]

BTW, I was a late summer baby too (early Sept)... I was 4 when I started Kindergarten... nobody worried about 'maturity' or anything back then... my bff was 4 months younger than me and the youngest in our class and still she did great too... I find it interesting that kids are so much different these days to need to be more 'mature'... uh.. their kids. And while Kindergarten in some ways now resembles 1st grade, it's still Kindergarten... and by the time 2nd grade rolls around it's the same curriculum as when I was a kid... they still do multiplication in 3rd... state history in 4th... and nothing has changed elsewhere so why tthis hinking that holding kids back is helpful is beyond me, unless it's to do with these danged state tests... I'm always the conspiracy theorist though. LOL...

There's definitely some truth to this. Testing has put a lot of pressure on schools, and what used to be first grade work is now done in kindergarten. I don't necessarily think it gives them any advantage, because by upper elementary they seem to be back on the level they always have been. I work at a school that was designated as "in need of improvement" by No Child Left Behind. The changes that I've seen as a result amaze me, and I wouldn't say they're all good changes. I cringe every time I see a first grader getting lectured because "You only scored a 13 on your --- test, and you need to be at a 26 by now. You need to start working harder." They put pressure on these kids to do better, because they're receiving the pressure from administrators, who are getting it from the school board, and the state. The kids don't understand what the numbers or the tests mean, and pressuring them isn't effective. The whole situation is very frustrating for me.

Anyways, as for the original poster, I agree with the others that said that academic readiness is much more important than social readiness. I could see the argument that if she is unable to sit still and focus on her work, than that could be a problem, but if they mean socially in terms of just interacting with the other children, that will come with time, regardless of which class she is in. If you think she's ready to move on to kindergarten, I would send her. I would also look for opportunities for her to interact with other kids her age outside of school, whether its girl scouts or a play group or just play dates with cousins or friends. You know your DD better than anyone else, so trust your instincts, and she'll be fine.

 

[heather223]

There's definitely some truth to this. Testing has put a lot of pressure on schools, and what used to be first grade work is now done in kindergarten. I don't necessarily think it gives them any advantage, because by upper elementary they seem to be back on the level they always have been. I work at a school that was designated as "in need of improvement" by No Child Left Behind. The changes that I've seen as a result amaze me, and I wouldn't say they're all good changes. I cringe every time I see a first grader getting lectured because "You only scored a 13 on your --- test, and you need to be at a 26 by now. You need to start working harder." They put pressure on these kids to do better, because they're receiving the pressure from administrators, who are getting it from the school board, and the state. The kids don't understand what the numbers or the tests mean, and pressuring them isn't effective. The whole situation is very frustrating for me.

I am currently going to college to get my teaching license and I just did an essay on the No Child Left Behind Act. I supported this act before I did this essay. I no longer support it. I read articles and books supporting both sides of this and I was astonished at what the law really does to schools. All I heard from my son's kindergarten teacher last year was he only scored this on this test and that isn't good enough!! Not only does it put stress on the teacher, it puts stress on the students and the students are not learning some of the more essential skills they need to! JMHO.:chef:

 

[daniellemorgan]

I'm a late September baby and I know my parents struggled with putting me in early (age 4) so they had me "tested" (whatever that means) and I apparently was off the charts brilliant, so they put me in early. I'm not sure if socially I was stunted, but I do remember being terribly bored. I'm not sure if you guys remember the "Babysitter's Club" books, but I was reading those in 1st grade. Nowadays kids can't even write their names in 1st grade. Anyways, I think I was too smart for school, so I shut down. I stopped trying and just sat there. I probably should have gone to a target school that specialized in something other than general education. My mother says now looking back that she agrees. Just watch out for signs of boredom and not caring because if you catch it early I'm sure it can be counteracted. I would put her in now because think how bored she would be if you waited a year! Good luck with whatever you decide!Oh and No Child Left Behind is a bunch of crap. Thought I would add that.

 

[SilverCeladon]

My son could go to K this year but I'm holding him back until 2009. What's a year and it could only benefit him.

 

[urbnk8]

Most of the people that I know that have started their kids in kindergarten early have wished that they would have waited another year. They just seem to be more successful when they are a little more ready.

 

[janetupnorth]

Most of the people that I know that have started their kids in kindergarten early have wished that they would have waited another year. They just seem to be more successful when they are a little more ready.

If it is kindergarten "early" vs. "on-time".

Deadlines on birthdays used to be much later in the year.

I don't think an August or September birthday to turn 5 is early, especially if they had preschool and are academically ready.

 

[ChefBeckyD]

I've read reports that say that for boys especially, it is often better to delay kindergarten until they are older......



Just throwing that out there - I really think it depends on the child.

 

[Jules711]

Thank you!!WOW! Thank you to everyone for giving me your opinions. I've been gone since my last post and just read through everything. I REALLY appreciate it.

The teacher is great. I really like her and she's been super with keeping me informed (what can I say...I'm an involved parent). She's only in pre-k for about 2.5 hours everyday and it's public school. While she has never had daycare or other organized socialization, she talks to everyone. She has talked to her teacher and the kids everyday updating them on new shoes and what she did over the weekend from day one.

In that way, I don't see HOW social issues are an issue. She wasn't good at listening and changing tasks (she likes to completely finish what she's doing). I talked to her and she did fine after that. She wasn't participating in their "greeting time" so I talked to her so she does it. From what I understand, she DOESN'T like to do the new stuff right away. Like new greetings or songs. But she likes to do them right I think and does get a little shy when she's unsure. Hello...ME TOO!!

Today, when I picked her up they kids were just finding out that they didn't have time for the gym. Two kids starting crying. They cry when gym time is over too. My question is...are THEY automatically going on to K? B/c I would think that is an issue too? Kids throw their shoes and bags all over when they get to school. My DD doesn't do that, but she'd rather talk to people and see what they are doing and share with them. If someone hurts her, she tells them and if they don't say anything she asks them to say sorry. Then, if she tells the teacher, she tells her "but it's okay b/c he didn't mean it". She is an awesome kid. She prays for every hurt and sees God in everything. But I'm her mom and I just want to make sure I'm seeing her through clear eyes.

Again...thank you to everyone. You are truly awesome to share and I know that you'll support me in what I do.

 

[KellyTheChef]

Jules...you have gotten a lot of input here, but I can tell by your posts that your heart is in the right place. Keep this situation in prayer and God will lead you in the direction that is best for your DD!

 

[tvwalsh72]

Well I can speak as a mom and a 1st grade teacher. It is my belief that all August and September babies should be held out (we have a Sept 30 cutoff). 90% of all the August and September children I've had over the last 14 years could have used an extra year. If teachers are doing their job, your daughter will NEVER be board. With differentiated instruction, all children should be retaught or enriched according to need. This year, I have a child practicing Pre-K and K skills to a group of 3 children almost a year ahead with most skills. If you walked into my room you would be instantly be able to pick out the youngest children.

As a mom, I have a child with a Sept 17 birthday. In NH, the law reads that all children need to be in a full day program by age 6. My son will be 4 when entering K, which is against my educational beliefs! I'm told I can hold him out of K (which is not manditory in NH), but he will be placed in 1st grade the following year.

I've been researching this within my school so I'll be able to present the facts to the school board when the time comes. I actually want to start something at the state level to get our cutoff to at least Aug 31 so that children will at least begin school at age 5.

Everyone who has taken my advice has come back to thank me! Of course you have to do what you think is right for your child, but keeping my child out is what I'll be doing.

Best wishes!

 

[janetupnorth]

I've read reports that say that for boys especially, it is often better to delay kindergarten until they are older......



Just throwing that out there - I really think it depends on the child.

There are always "exceptions" and each parent noticed their child best, but I've noticed that when younger girls seem to do better earlier and socially than the boys.

Of course in my family DS is proving to be the exception. He just turned 4 in December so he has a whole complete year before kindergarten. He wants to be in school SOOOO bad!

 

[Paula R. Lewis]

Jules, I have 3 children. The first two are July babies, the third April. The oldest is a girl, the other are boys.
When Jessica was 3, she would actually sit, in the carseat, and as we drove along, would practice learning how to say the pledge of allegiance!! (really cute, too, how she'd pronounce some of those words!) She really WANTED to learn it, too! So, when our kindergarten "decision" time came, we sent her, no questions asked. She did just fine.

When David came along, however, I had my doubts. My husband said that we weren't holding him back, because we didn't hold Jessica back. (like that should make it right, huh?) We had him tested, both at the pre-school as well as the kindergarten. He passed, and we sent him. However, he really did struggle with school for awhile. We finally enrolled him in Sylvan in the summer. I think he went about 72 total hours. It helped him alot, and he is now a Senior. Of course, I still think he would've benefited by holding him back a year, but the extra tutoring helped.
Our third, Garrett, is considered "gifted", as well as ADHD, as the two seem to go hand in hand. He's our little "Dennis the Menace", and is, well, in a category all by himself...<grin>

As for the comment about dating, etc... Where Jessica and David are concerned, I found it to be a positive that they were younger. The older kids were getting their driver's license first. I was able to sit back and watch them see their friends getting speeding tickets, etc....I think it helped, in the long run!!

Anyway, bottom line is this...you'll get lots of opinions. But ultimately, God gave you instincts. Pray, and follow them! They are there for a reason. I agree with sending your daughter, if you honestly think she's ready. If it turns out that you're wrong, so what? It's only Kindergarten and is very easy to repeat!!

Blessings,
Paula

 

[Jules711]

Kelly, thank you for your support and kind words.

Tricia, my dd will be 5 when she starts K if that's what we do (you mentioned your son would be 4). You said that you believe almost all Aug/Sept kids should be held back. Is this based on their academic abilities? Or social (as is supposed to be my dd's case)? I want her to be where she belongs. Where she will flourish. If new things take awhile for her to get used to, is it best to keep it the same or is it better to just continue letting her grow and figure out the new stuff. I think I'll just keep an eye on it over the next couple months and talk to her about doing the new things.

 

[tvwalsh72]

Tricia, my dd will be 5 when she starts K if that's what we do (you mentioned your son would be 4). You said that you believe almost all Aug/Sept kids should be held back. Is this based on their academic abilities? Or social (as is supposed to be my dd's case)?

I feel that for most children it is social. It always feels like they are one step behind, even if they are academically ready. I kept this little boy back last year, I felt like he was so smart, he was socially appropriate with other children as well. He just couldn't handle "school social skills or self help skills":dressing and undressing (capable but wanted me to do everything), routines (when I say get ready to go home - that means a lot - pack bookbag, empty mailbox, pack backpack, get dressed, put up chair etc. . .) He is sooooo successful this year, he is not that much above the other children because was so unfocused last year he had a lot of holes in his learning.

I'm not one to believe in retention, I would prefer that parents would be given the gift to make the choice to hold out younger so social relationships can develop. This is what I would like for my son.

I read earlier someone complain that schools expect too much from children at a young age. She was absolutly right, but I have no choice, I have to do my job the way administration tells me to. We have to make certain benchmarks or else the feds take much needed money away. So K is the new first grade, children are leaving K reading and writing.

Like I said before, ultimately it is your decision, follow your gut. My daughter (May baby) will be going to K next year and she is sooooo ready, she can even do somethings better than my first graders. Remember, this has no reflection on you as a mom, you're a good mom to be doing your research and making an educated decision. If you ever need any more advice or support, just PM me.

My cousin registered her son last year for K and Pre-k in May and put off her decision till July. You also said that she'd be going to private school. Another option is to send her to public school K then put her in private school K afterward. Also consider if the program will be 1/2 day or full day. Full days are hard on first graders for the first few months of school.

Sorry I could go on and on with this subject - it is very close to my heart. Good luck!

 

[jrstephens]

Russell insists that we are holding Luke back. He's birthday is July 19th, he will be 4, so, he will go to K4 at 5. I do not agree but cannot get him to budge. He is a teacher and is determined that he is right. I have been praying for God to make me agree with him or him to change and agree with me, either way just to get us to agree and it not be a huge debate between us when it is mentioned.

I want to send him to K4 on schedule and see how it goes and hold him back if necessary but Russell wants to hold him back to begin with. Neither one of us has budged on what we want yet!

 

[Bren706]

Thank you Jules711 for starting this thread.

My DS will be 5 in June. His pre-K teacher suggested keeping him in Pre-K next year. He just started with a speech therapist, and the therapist told me there is no need to keep him back. He is definetely ready academics wise. The teacher was concerned about mainly his social readiness, as well.

It is great to get all this feedback from everyone. Thanks again!

 

[Paula R. Lewis]

Russell insists that we are holding Luke back. He's birthday is July 19th, he will be 4, so, he will go to K4 at 5. I do not agree but cannot get him to budge. He is a teacher and is determined that he is right. I have been praying for God to make me agree with him or him to change and agree with me, either way just to get us to agree and it not be a huge debate between us when it is mentioned.

I want to send him to K4 on schedule and see how it goes and hold him back if necessary but Russell wants to hold him back to begin with. Neither one of us has budged on what we want yet!

Well, Jennifer, if it helps any, my David's birthday is July 23rd. I DID want to hold him back (see my earlier post), but we didn't because my husband was so insistent about it. It ended up costing us ALOT of $$, sending him for extra help.
Also, since he's a boy, I had someone tell me once that, since boys will ultimately develop physically later than girls, if you want to have him in sports (like football or wrestling, especially), that the extra year to "grow" will benefit him in high school...Just a thought.

Good luck to you in this!
Paula

 

[jrstephens]

Well, Jennifer, if it helps any, my David's birthday is July 23rd. I DID want to hold him back (see my earlier post), but we didn't because my husband was so insistent about it. It ended up costing us ALOT of $$, sending him for extra help.
Also, since he's a boy, I had someone tell me once that, since boys will ultimately develop physically later than girls, if you want to have him in sports (like football or wrestling, especially), that the extra year to "grow" will benefit him in high school...Just a thought.

Good luck to you in this!
Paula

My husband is a football coach, so, I am sure the size issue is going into his thinking too, ha!

 

[pamperedposey]

I had a similar situation. My daughter went to Pre-K for a year and a half, but missed the cutoff for Kindergarten by ONE day! Her teachers all said that she would not benefit by another year of Pre-K, but the school systems would not budge and wouldn't let her start school. I ended up homeschooling her first year of Kindergarten and then put her into public school (still Kindergarten) the next year. Now she is really a pro! The teacher is constantly commenting at how well she is picking up on everything. It helps that the school is actually using the same curriculum that I used.

 

[khergatt]

I would actually keep her in Pre-K another year.

As an adult that started Kindergarten at 4, I know first hand about the "social" part. I didn't notice a difference in elementary school AT all! If that was all there was, I would say send her to Kindergarten now. HOWEVER, in middle school a little bit and definitely in high school I can look back and see the difference between me and my friends. I was younger. I wasn't ready to do some of the things that they were doing. I would say that roughly 50% of the "fights" I got in with my friends were due to this.

Good luck making your decision!!! It's not easy being a parent.

 

[pamperedlinda]

I think it's different for each child. I went to K when I was 4 and started 1st grade at 5 (my b'day is Sept 30). Of course, that was way back in the 60's when the cut-off date was Dec 31st. Personally speaking I did not have any problems adjusting or learning. I was always the youngest in my class though. I graduated at 17 and started college at 17.

However, today's school system is so much different. It is much faster paced, the classes are larger, the kids are learning in K what I learned in 1st, they are required to do much more for themselves, and they have a LOT of homework (that was unheard of when I was a child).

As parents we don't want anyone telling us how to raise our child or what our child can/can't do. And, we definately don't want them to be left behind. You've been given a lot of advice here. We don't know your child.

Most schools will allow you to observe classroom activities. Why don't you talk to the school where your child is slated to attend and see if you can observe a couple of the K classrooms. Go a couple of times and go at different times each day. Granted we are half-way through the school year now, but you will get a good idea of what they are doing and maybe that will help your decision.

btw, my DS is in K and he did go to pre-K, he is a Feb b'day, he is doing just fine. There are a few other boys in his class who are a little slow, I'll try and see if I can find out when their b'days are and see if this theory holds true for them. My son also has a wonderful teacher who has been teaching for @ 20 years. I'm friends with her so I'll ask her about this and see what her take is. I'll get back with you next week - bump this or pm me if I forget.

 

[lacychef]

Fun to see all the different perspectives! My older dd's b-day is in June, she went to K after she turned 5 & has been doing fantastic. I don't like the 'no child left behind' much either. They are learning things so early, and I see some kids in her class struggling. It's gotta be so hard to be a teacher these days.
Cindy, I'm in the same boat as you with my younger dd. Her b-day is Sept 1 & will turn 5 this year; our school cut-off is Aug 31 & they won't budge either. So she will have her second year of preschool. Here though, most people send their kids to preschool for 2 years. At age 3 they can go 2 days a week, & at age 4 they can go for 3 days a week. She'll learn some different things next year; though both socially & intellectually I think she *would* be ready for K. (but I don't really mind keeping my baby home for one more year ) Plus, here K is all day; so it's a pretty big adjustment from preschool.

Good luck with your decision!

 

[Shawnna]

I need to go back and read the posts again. We are not talking about an early starter right...this child is going to be the "normal" age for Kindergarten but just has a later birthday than the other kids. But, really a summer birthday is not late. It is in the normal range of the cutoff.

My October son waited the extra year to start school and he is bored to death in his classes. The school is doing the best they can for him, but he is BORED!! I started to "test him out" and send him on to Kindergarten early, but decided against it because that would have put him in a class of mostly girls...and they were/are all hateful little brats...so I didn't put him there. There are many times that I wish I would have sent him anyway. He is one of the oldest people in his class and he hears "its easy for you because you're older". He will be nearly 19 when he graduates from high school. Perhaps he will be better able to "handle" the world and yes he might be bigger in size and that will help him with sports, but I think there are negatives there too. When you are 12 in the 6th grade and most everyone else is 11 until late in the spring or summer, it causes problems too.

 

[etteluap70PC]

He's birthday is July 19th,

Hijack!!!

My Sammie's b-day is the same day!