New Hires & References... Need Advice.

[AJPratt]

So, I have interviewed a million people for my store and I have narrowed it down to a list of candidiates that I feel would be a good fit with our store. I have checked some references and most of them are glowing. There are a couple that are not positive or are the "read between the lines" type. I guess my question is do you check refs and do you still hire someone even if you get a bad one? I am sure somewhere down the line someone may say something less than positive about me, so should I hold it against someone?

 

[cmdtrgd]

I believe (and don't quote me on this one) that it could be illegal or sueable if you were to give a bad recommendation. So, if you can hire those who have great recommendations and not the ones who are "read between the lines", that is what I would do. As for the others, you might want to hire them for non-management and/or on a trial basis.

 

[jrstephens]

I think if you get one bad reference it is not that much to be conisdered. I would take into account what the other references say against the bad one. We do check each reference out where I work when we hire a secretary. If all the reference were along the "read between the lines" I do not think I would chance it or if I did, I would let them know it was for a trial basis and at the end of that basis you both reserve the right to quit each other.

 

[jrstephens]

I believe (and don't quote me on this one) that it could be illegal or sueable if you were to give a bad recommendation.

I work for an attorney and I do not know of it being "illegal" unless it is not true and they can prove you are lying as far as slander goes. Anything is "suable" these days, ha!

 

[ChefBeckyD]

One of the legal questions you can ask and answer is "Would you re-hire this person?" There are so many roadblocks when hiring - as far as legal interview questions, and what kinds of reference questions you can answer.....:yuck:

 

[cmdtrgd]

You might want to talk with a lawyer and see what you can and can't ask in your state and what good questions to ask are that will get you the info you want without getting you in trouble!

 

[rennea]

One of the legal questions you can ask and answer is "Would you re-hire this person?" There are so many roadblocks when hiring - as far as legal interview questions, and what kinds of reference questions you can answer.....:yuck:

Bingo Becky!!!

Anne I always ask this when I call for a reference, it really does say everything.

Questions I always ask:

Was he/she dependable?
Were they ever late?
Did he/she work well in a team enviroment? Did they work well alone?
What important duties did you leave them with?
and the all important....

If given the chance would you re-hire this employee?

HTH Anne, the worst part I have found in owning and running my restaurant is hiring and firing

Good Luck as always!!

 

[AJPratt]

One of the legal questions you can ask and answer is "Would you re-hire this person?" There are so many roadblocks when hiring - as far as legal interview questions, and what kinds of reference questions you can answer.....:yuck:

I have heard that you can't give a bad ref, but most I have talked to give a nice one. I have asked everyone: "Is this person elligible to be rehired?" All the good ones said yes. The bad said no. Everyone I hire will be on a probationary basis. One girl told me she had a personality conflict with the new GM and so I wasn't surpised when he would only confirm the dates she worked there and that she was not re-hireable.

 

[chefann]

Don't forget that someone's not going to give you the name of someone who is likely to give them an unfavorable review. Someone in H.R. at my company once told me that they ask the references for names and phone numbers to other people who worked with the candidate, and then they talk to those people. That second-tier is comprised of people who are much more likely to give you an honest assessment.

 

[rennea]

One girl told me she had a personality conflict with the new GM and so I wasn't surpised when he would only confirm the dates she worked there and that she was not re-hireable.

This is a tough one, atleast the girl was honest about the conflict. Go with your gut feeling, it's what I do. And you never know when you might find a diamond in the rough

 

[AJPratt]

Thanks, Rennea. I talked to one guy and one woman who were just IMO, jerks. Jerks to me! So, I guess I can hire the people I like and then go from there.

Ann, most of the people I am hiring are high school/college kids; not exactly devious or descriminating as far as who to list for refs. I have run the gamit as far as responses from the former employers. One was upset that her employee might be leaving. Oh crap! She said, "I didn't know she was going to use me as a ref." Ooops.

 

[rennea]

I had a lady yell at me one time cause she didn't get the job, and was mad cause what did I know...I'm too young to own a business!!! Kind of made my day, never felt so young

I see a lot of people be rude when they bring in there resume, they don't think that the person behind the counter could be the "boss".

Never had somebody giving out a reference be rude though.

 

[AJPratt]

Rennea... I TOTALLY get what you're saying. People think I'm in my mid 40s and then when they meet me, realize I'm much younger (I'm 32).

I was surprised at the rudeness. Maybe I caught them at a bad time, who knows. The one guy before I even gave is name said, "All I am going to do is comfirm they worked here. Nothing else." Well, then, what's the sense? I could ask for their tax return to confirm that. Sheez.

So, I try not to hold it against anyone. I know the last sales manager I worked with couldn't stand me, and it was mutual. It doesn't mean that I didn't do a good job... just didn't get along with him.

I'd hate to lose a good opp for a good emp. because of what someone else might say. I mean, if I listened to most people, I'd still be at that sh*tty job putting up with all kinds of crap. I guess I'll just keep an extra close eye on them. Then again, who's to say that someone with a glowing ref won't try to rob me blind? It gives me a heads up I guess.

 

[The_Kitchen_Guy]

"All I am going to do is comfirm they worked here. Nothing else."

This speaks volumes, doesn't it?

 

[rennea]

This speaks volumes, doesn't it?

Sometimes KG a lot of places have made it policey that they will only give out dates of employment and that's it.

It sure makes hiring even more difficult now.

 

[PamperChefCarol]

Coming from someone who has hired and fired too large a number to count in her day...

Check references... here in Michigan most people will not say much about a person, but the question to ask is "would you rehire?" Then again, some will tell you all. I always think that if a person gives you another person's name as a reference, it might not give you the whole story.

Basically it's a "go with your gut" sort of thing. Sometimes it works, sometimes your gut gets fooled. Just be prepared to fire someone if you need to. At times, even though you think a breathing body is better than no body at all, it's not the case!

Good luck and we are all pulling for you!

 

[AJPratt]

This speaks volumes, doesn't it?

That was the first thing he said to me. I hadn't even give a name at that point.

One woman got nasty with me saying it was illegal to give a reference. A bad one, I can see, but good grief. Let's not get so dramatic. We're not talking about the pentagon for chrissake. Don't get me wrong, I am taking this seriously and I want good people, but its not brain surgery.


Thanks for all of your input!! Its helped!

 

[rennea]

Don't get me wrong, I am taking this seriously and I want good people, but its not brain surgery.

I have often said if my dogs had thumbs they would be able to do the job. Sometimes I think I should of started having kids at a young age, by this time I'd have a full staff!!!

 

[AJPratt]

That's very true.

 

[nikkijo]

First it is not illegal to give a refrence good or bad. But the person that gives a bad one could be held liable for slander, this is the reason many companies do not say much anymore. The main ? many will answer is if they would rehire the person.

Just remember employment-at-will. If the employee does not work out, you can fire them for any reason or no reason at all. Sounds harsh but that is reality unless you have a contract. (are you going to have an employee handbook? this could be taken as a contract..fyi)

I agree with ChefAnn if you can talk to co-workers this would give you a good idea if the employee is a good worker or not, better than someone in HR that pulls up there file.

Also consider doing a work sample. This is where the potential employee's are given some task that they will be expected to perform and see how they do. You can rate them and have this as part of the interview process. This has high validity and realiablitlity on if they will be a good performer or not. (granted they may have to learn how to use the machines or how to make the drinks first)


With that all said and done...go with your gut..if it does not work out they may choose to find another job or you can always find a replacement for them.

 

[RebelChef]

But the person that gives a bad one could be held liable for slander

How ridiculous is this? If the ex-employee didn't do a good job, it's not slander. I guess the truth hurts. lol

The biggest problem I had when I managed a capuccino cafe was scheduling. It's a mess when you're trying to schedule around college classes. That's all we had working there and I had to have a chart on the wall telling who could work when. High school would be a bit easier because they have set schedules. When I managed full service restaurants, none of the employees were students and it was a breeze.

Good luck with your new business! :thumbup:

 

[AJPratt]

I agree... I have a lot of high school kids, some college and a few older ladies, who I think would be my "pillars".

Thanks for your kind words!

 

[baychef]

Don't forget that someone's not going to give you the name of someone who is likely to give them an unfavorable review.

Unfortunately...there are some out there that will STILL use me as a reference when they know full well that there were serious problems. And I do know of some that will give you a glowing reference when they want to get rid of you too! I have not done this, but I do know many who have.

I have had people tell me how good they are and have had it backed up by others...they weren't good at all. And I have had some with and education in the field and fail miserably. Gut feelings DO work best. Just realize that sometimes there are those people who interview well but stink at the job.

20 years of hiring and firing in food service and occassionally one will sneek in and fool me!!

 

[Shawnna]

UUUGGGGHHH! Hiring and firing is the worst. It is true that most people won't give you a bad reference because they worry about being sued. All the companies I know of will only tell you if they would rehire the person. It is hard to find good people to work for you. It holds true that everyone wants a job, but not everyone wants to work. Trying to schedule around high school and college classes is really hard. And, when you get 20 employees and someone calls you every night because they can't come in...or one person each night needs to be off for whatever reason, you end up working so much to cover their shifts that you can't get your own work finished. People do not understand that. I have high school kids who play ball and they might can only work or 2 nights a week during the season and you have to hire someone else to cover the rest of the week...or do it yourself...and then they expect you to give them their 1 or 2 nights plus when they are finished with the season they should get to come back full time. It can get tough. One thing my husband always tells new people is that they are hired for 2 weeks and at the end of that period they have the option of saying "this isn't for me" and we have the option of saying "its not working out". I wish you the best of luck. You will hear the best fairy tales in your life when you start employing people. I have heard it all. I even had one that told me they couldn't come to work because their mother died...and she hadn't. I had one tell me that they had to leave in the middle of their shift because their sister had an accident. I was really worried and asked him later how his sister was. Come to find out, she is in daycare and had an accident in her pants and he had to go take care of her...but he didn't come back afterwards to finish his shift. I was furious!!

 

[sfdavis918]

How ridiculous is this? If the ex-employee didn't do a good job, it's not slander. I guess the truth hurts. lol

It's really not that ridiculous. Some people have mentioned that they didn't get along with their supervisors. They could end up getting a bad reference when it wasn't actually true. Not that I think that's a reason to sue somebody (or maybe I do... I dunno, it's not really that black and white for me) but it can cause someone to lose out on jobs.

 

[erinb]

I believe (and don't quote me on this one) that it could be illegal or sueable if you were to give a bad recommendation. So, if you can hire those who have great recommendations and not the ones who are "read between the lines", that is what I would do. As for the others, you might want to hire them for non-management and/or on a trial basis.

I think you are right on this. There are limitations as to what a former emloyer can give you on the employee. I know when I worked at a country club in NC, if someone called for a reference, all we could say is "yes this person worked here" and confirm the time frame that they were there.

And of course, in this time and date, anyone can sue anybody for anything....absolutely rediculous!!

 

[redsoxgirl]

I work for an attorney and I do not know of it being "illegal" unless it is not true and they can prove you are lying as far as slander goes. Anything is "suable" these days, ha!

In Mass, all they can say is "Joe worked here from XX/XX/XX to XX/XX/XX.

 

[ChefBeckyD]

It's really not that ridiculous. Some people have mentioned that they didn't get along with their supervisors. They could end up getting a bad reference when it wasn't actually true. Not that I think that's a reason to sue somebody (or maybe I do... I dunno, it's not really that black and white for me) but it can cause someone to lose out on jobs.

This is so true - it happened to me, not with a job, but when I was in college for an apartment reference. I had applied to rent a new apt, and my former landlord (a grumpy, elderly lady) gave me a bad reference. Why? because my best friend was African-American!

She actually told me she didn't want her coming to the apt (this was in the South) and that she wouldn't ever rent to "someone colored" (her words not mine) I said that she could not tell me who I could or couldn't have visit the apartment. I reported her to the BBB, but nothing came of it.

When I found another apt., and they called for a reference, she gave them such an earful of lies about me, that they almost didn't let me have the apt. I had to tell them to ask to speak to her husband instead of her. He was a nice, but very hen-pecked man, and he told them the truth. I was so glad to finally get out of there!

 

[rennea]

This is so true - it happened to me, not with a job, but when I was in college for an apartment reference. I had applied to rent a new apt, and my former landlord (a grumpy, elderly lady) gave me a bad reference. Why? because my best friend was African-American!

WOW!! I'm speechless..............

 

[rennea]

UUUGGGGHHH! Hiring and firing is the worst. It is true that most people won't give you a bad reference because they worry about being sued. All the companies I know of will only tell you if they would rehire the person. It is hard to find good people to work for you. It holds true that everyone wants a job, but not everyone wants to work. Trying to schedule around high school and college classes is really hard. And, when you get 20 employees and someone calls you every night because they can't come in...or one person each night needs to be off for whatever reason, you end up working so much to cover their shifts that you can't get your own work finished. People do not understand that................

Sorry but this kind of made me chuckle!! I'm just about to go out the door to start my day. And this sound like a broken record to me. I right with you.

But we don't want to scare Anne to much

 

[CookingwithMary]

My husband owns a small business. For the HS/College crowd he goes by 'gut feeling' most of the time. Everyone is hired on a 90 day trial basis.My day job pre-employment physical included a urine test for drugs (and subject to testing at any time). Another job long ago had a lie detector test as part of the pre employment condition. That weeded out a few applicants--some who never showed for the test Just saying...

 

[AJPratt]

See... something like Becky's story wants me to give some of these kids the benefit out the doubt. I will be hiring eveyone on a trial basis and NJ is one of the states with "at will employment".

 

[CookingwithMary]

Sorry, double post

 

[tinachef]

When I used to do interviewing I would look at the refernces, ask the interviewee why they left their last employment or why they are looking for another job. And then go with my initial reaction to them. Especially when you are dealing in a "service" job. Do you think they will be pleasant and dependable. Sometimes I found my gut was better than calling all the refernces on their resume/application. Good luck! And the worse that could happen is you hire someone and they don't work out. It happens all the time, and while it was frustrating to have to rehire and train again sometimes the second hire is the right one for the job!

 

[Shawnna]

As much "trouble" as employees can be, I still love having my own business. We live in a rural area, so most of our customers are daily regulars who tell you their problems and exciting news. Sometimes this makes it hard to me a boss to people because they become like your family. But, having your own business is a great opportunity...to make money, to pick your own hours, to make new friends, and to be a witness for Jesus. I try my best to be a "light" to my employees and customers. Sometimes I fail miserably, sometimes I have to say "I'm sorry", but for the most part I feel like I am helping other people while I help my family to have a better life.

 

[RebelChef]

She actually told me she didn't want her coming to the apt (this was in the South)

I hope you don't hold this against the rest of us southerners. That's just wrong no matter how you look at it. I had a good friend who was black but wouldn't come to the area of town I lived in because once upon a time there was a Klan building in the town between ours. (Suburbs of Houston) It was a bookstore but I couldn't convince her. That's just sad that people are so narrow minded and that others have to be so cautious because of it.

 

[AJPratt]

That's a shame.

I was talking to my husband tonight and we feel we should give the ones I really like a try. My feeling was if someone called my last job and talked to the sales manager who hated me, what would he say? NOTHING GOOD. That doesn't mean I did a bad job.

I feel worse comes to worse, I can fire the girl. Everyone is a good candidate, but there are a few that really got my attention. MAYBE a coffee house environment (little off-center, but fun work) is perfect for this girl, ya know? C'mon, I've got pink hair! Most people wouldn't hire me!

 

[pamperedlinda]

That's a shame.

I was talking to my husband tonight and we feel we should give the ones I really like a try. My feeling was if someone called my last job and talked to the sales manager who hated me, what would he say? NOTHING GOOD. That doesn't mean I did a bad job.

I feel worse comes to worse, I can fire the girl. Everyone is a good candidate, but there are a few that really got my attention. MAYBE a coffee house environment (little off-center, but fun work) is perfect for this girl, ya know? C'mon, I've got pink hair! Most people wouldn't hire me!

I say give her a try out :thumbup:

You could get a job as a receptionist in a tattoo parlor I bet

 

[ChefBeckyD]

I hope you don't hold this against the rest of us southerners. That's just wrong no matter how you look at it. I had a good friend who was black but wouldn't come to the area of town I lived in because once upon a time there was a Klan building in the town between ours. (Suburbs of Houston) It was a bookstore but I couldn't convince her. That's just sad that people are so narrow minded and that others have to be so cautious because of it.

No, I don't hold it against anyone - I realized she was one mean old bigoted, hate filled woman....my friend Roz, who she didn't want setting foot on "her property" is worth 10,000 of her - but she thought she was so much better. Can I just tell you that this is my friend who, on the 1st anniversary of my brother's death, went out and got me a kitten, and all of the stuff to go with it - even though she is deathly allergic to cats? That is the kind of person she is. I love her!:love: , and now retelling that story, I'm missing her! (She still lives in SC) I'm gonna go call her right now!

 

[baychef]

Before the job I have, I did not hire and fire high school/college kids but I did work with many. For the most part they were good kids. I think you are taking the right approach, Anne. We had a 6 months probationary period and now it is 1 year. I like that because adults can "fake" a good performance for 5 months, but they crack before a year!