Can giving choices help with discipline? - Love and Logic for Kelly!

[ChefBeckyD]

Hey Kelly!

You asked yesterday about what changes I've implemented in discipline since reading the book "Love and Logic Magic for Early Childhood". (there is a book for dealing with older children also) I told you I'd get back with you last night, but got to caught up in the Political thread. I'm home now with a sick child, so have some time to tell you some of the things we are doing.

The premise of the book is that with Love and Logic, your children will learn how to live with the consequences of their actions, avoid blaming others for their problems, and make wise decisions.

One thing we've started doing is giving choices for most things. When Micah makes choices, it teaches him to think for himself and make the right choice. But when he makes a choice, he also has to live with that choice. I control the choices though, by giving him ones that are okay with me either way.

So - here are some recent choices:

Would you like milk or juice with your muffin?

Do you want to wear your tennis shoes or your sandals?

Do you want to eat lunch now, or in 15 minutes?

Do you want to watch Word World, or Backyardigans?

Do you want to ride your bike, or help pick tomatoes?

Do you want to pick up your toys, so you can play with them tomorrow, or do you want mom to pick them up and put them away for a week?

Do you want to spend your money now on this toy, or do you want to save your money for vacation souvenirs?

So - he is making decisions and learning to think for himself. With the one about his money - he was determined to buy a John Deere tractor, so I explained to him that if he spent all his money now, he wouldn't have any money for vacation. His response was that I could give him more...and I told him that he could help do some extra chores to earn more, but I wasn't just giving him more if he chose to spend what he had. He decided to buy a smaller, cheaper JD, and save part of his money for vacation, and then he also asked for some extra chores to earn some more.

The result? We did not have a meltdown in the store, because he didn't get the toy he first wanted. He thanked me for letting him buy the smaller tractor, he is excited about having money for vacation, and he was eager to help daddy wash the truck, sweep the garage, and help mom pick tomatoes. (and when we asked him to do those things his response was "sure thing - no problem!")

When it came time to pick up his toys, and I gave him his choice - he couldn't pick them up fast enough! Now, when I give him that choice, he wants me to time him to see how fast he can do it!

So, in the book, every time you give a choice, it's called a deposit. Then, when there are times you can't give a choice, you make a withdrawal by saying "Mommy gives you lots of choices, but this time it's my choice". For instance, we got home late a couple nights ago, and it was way past his bedtime, so I didn't give a choice about going to bed - I just said "It's time for bed".....He started to ask for more time, so I just said "Uh oh....Mom has given you choices all day, and now it's mom's decision for you to go to bed." He thought about that for a second, and then complied without any arguing!


There is a lot more to it, but that is one thing we are doing!

 

[elizabethfox]

That is so cool! I really need to get this book and read it through! TJ is 3 and has started asserting his independence and we constantly have battles! I feel like all I do is tell him "NO" all day long! I will have to check this book out....who wrote it??

 

[ChefBeckyD]

That is so cool! I really need to get this book and read it through! TJ is 3 and has started asserting his independence and we constantly have battles! I feel like all I do is tell him "NO" all day long! I will have to check this book out....who wrote it??

It's written by Jim Fay & Charles Fay Ph.d.

Elizabeth - that is exactly why I bought the book! I was exhausted after doing battle all day long every day with an extremely strong-willed child. I had tried every kind of discipline, and was still feeling exhausted from the battle. Plus, I want to be able to enjoy him, and still teach him right from wrong.

Our house has been a different house this past week implementing a bunch of the steps in this book. I cannot even believe the difference! When DH came home from work on Tuesday, it was incredible to tell him that we hadn't had one meltdown or temper tantrum all day. Another thing they talk about in the book is showing your child that you can be in control and manage them without stress. It works!

 

[cwinter474]

Do you know the name of the book for older children?

 

[ChefBeckyD]

Do you know the name of the book for older children?

Here is a link to Amazon, with a listing of the books.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0891093117/?tag=pfamazon01-20

 

[ChefBeckyD]

And here is an example from just now!DS HATES taking medicine, even if it tastes good. It is a horrible battle any time he needs to take any type of medicine. He can detect it in applesauce, a smoothie, pudding, and he gags himself and throws up if you give it to him plain. (did I mention he's strong-willed?)He is running a fever, and we are supposed to go to my in-laws for lunch. He loves going to Grandpa & Grandma's....so I just asked him if he wanted to take the Tylenol and go, or if he wanted to not take it and stay home. Then, because we had 2 different flavors, I gave him a choice - grape or bubblegum? He chose bubblegum, and just chewed them up without any complaint at all! First time EVER I have given him medicine without drama!Oh - and he's laying on the couch next to me watching the Veggietales movie - Jonah, and he just said "Mom! I think my fever has stopped running! I don't feel it running anymore!"

 

[ChefBeckyD]

Bumping for Kelly...

 

[janetupnorth]

Becky - Is he feeling better yet?

 

[Kitchen Diva]

And here is an example from just now!

DS HATES taking medicine, even if it tastes good. It is a horrible battle any time he needs to take any type of medicine. He can detect it in applesauce, a smoothie, pudding, and he gags himself and throws up if you give it to him plain. (did I mention he's strong-willed?)

He is running a fever, and we are supposed to go to my in-laws for lunch. He loves going to Grandpa & Grandma's....so I just asked him if he wanted to take the Tylenol and go, or if he wanted to not take it and stay home. Then, because we had 2 different flavors, I gave him a choice - grape or bubblegum? He chose bubblegum, and just chewed them up without any complaint at all! First time EVER I have given him medicine without drama!



Oh - and he's laying on the couch next to me watching the Veggietales movie - Jonah, and he just said "Mom! I think my fever has stopped running! I don't feel it running anymore!"

That is too cute! When my niece "Maggie" sneezes, I say Gesundheit! And she says, "No, God Bless me Aunt Krissy"...and I tell her that Gesundheit means God Bless you in German... and she says- God is not German!

How cute is that?

 

[ChefBeckyD]

He is. I'm thinking now that it might be allergies wreaking havoc on his little body. The ragweed pollen count is extremely high right now. He was doing pretty good by about 1pm, and then, this evening, he was outside with Rick packing the camper, and came back in all stuffed up, sneezing, and coughing again.

 

[KellyTheChef]

Becky~

Thank you for updating me! And thank you for bumping the thread...somehow when I was on earlier I missed it. (How is that possible with my NAME in the thread!??! lol)

I do choices with Evan on some things...but this has made me think that I need to give him MORE choices. Perhaps with more choices, we would have less meltdowns and less time in "time out". I am thinking even if I just changed my WORDING a bit, it may help.

Do you have probs with Micah not wanting to eat? Evan is really trying to assert himself now with food and he's making me nuts.

Cute what he said about his fever not running! I love the things little ones say!

 

[KellyTheChef]

Oh...about the food thing. How can I word that as a choice? Right now I tell him if he doesn't eat (his breakfast, lunch, or dinner) that he will get NOTHING till the next meal time.

 

[janetupnorth]

That is too cute! When my niece "Maggie" sneezes, I say Gesundheit! And she says, "No, God Bless me Aunt Krissy"...and I tell her that Gesundheit means God Bless you in German... and she says- God is not German!

How cute is that?

Very cute!



Technically though, it means, "Good health to you..."

 

[ChefBeckyD]

Becky~

Thank you for updating me! And thank you for bumping the thread...somehow when I was on earlier I missed it. (How is that possible with my NAME in the thread!??! lol)

I do choices with Evan on some things...but this has made me think that I need to give him MORE choices. Perhaps with more choices, we would have less meltdowns and less time in "time out". I am thinking even if I just changed my WORDING a bit, it may help.

Do you have probs with Micah not wanting to eat? Evan is really trying to assert himself now with food and he's making me nuts.

Cute what he said about his fever not running! I love the things little ones say!

Micah is not an eater. Never has been. He will eat just about anything - and is willing to do "try bites" for everything (if allowed to smell it first! I think he's an olefactory learner) but he only eats a few bites at a time.

He doesn't like breakfast, and often doesn't eat until 10-10:30am. But, this week I've started out with giving him his choices for breakfast as soon as he gets up in the morning. "Do you want yogurt & granola, or a PB & J?" (we go with some unorthodox breakfasts, because he just doesn't like breakfast food. Neither do I - so I don't push him to eat it.) Then I ask "Do you want to eat at the table or on the front porch?" "Do you want to eat before you get dressed, or after?" So, once we've decided what, where, and when - he seems to be ready to eat. At lunch today at Grandma's - he climbed up to the table and said "Ewww, I don't like 'Tato Salad" So I immediately told him that big boys didn't complain about the food because it hurts the feelings of the people who made it, instead, they just asked for what they would like. So - I asked him if he wanted potato salad or baked beans....and then asked him if he wanted a small bbq sandwich or a large one....if he wanted one scoop of fruit salad or 2 scoops....and if he wanted potato chips or corn chips. Usually, we have a very hard time getting him to eat in a social setting - but today, he ate EVERYTHING on his plate except for a few chips and a bite of bbq!
I just keep being constantly amazed at the difference!

 

[chefmoseley]

one thing that we do with my daughter at meal times (she is picky). She has to eat a plate of what we are having for dinner (one spoonful of each item) and then if she wants PB and J she has to make it (she's 3). Since we started this she has tried more food and normally will ask for more of what we are having for dinner. I found that by letting her 'help' me load her plate (how many spoons) that she has done better as well. PB and J still comes like once every 2 weeks partly b/c she 'likes how mom makes it better' and b/c she is a big girl and wants to eat like mom and dad. she had picked up the line from my MIL 'this is not a restaurant'. I think by giving her the choice of how much was going on her plate and where helped her. (she always has at least a teaspoon of each thing). Also each Sat we rotate choice first Sat is Ally's choice, Second is Daddy's so on and so forth. She helps with the grocery shopping and making dinner when possible so she has some ownership.

 

[ChefBeckyD]

Oh...about the food thing. How can I word that as a choice? Right now I tell him if he doesn't eat (his breakfast, lunch, or dinner) that he will get NOTHING till the next meal time.

I do that too....last night he didn't want to eat dinner, so I said "okay, you can choose not to eat. Mommy and Daddy are going to eat, and when we are done, the food is going to be put away, and it won't come back out until tomorrow morning. However, if you choose not to eat, then you also can't keep coming to the table and talking to Mommy and Daddy, because this is a place for those who are eating."

He was sitting in his chair eating within 2 minutes!

So, I'm basically doing the same thing you are, only making it his choice.

 

[KellyTheChef]

Good ideas ladies!

Thank you!

 

[raebates]

Sounds like a great book. The authors clearly used our strategy--genius. LOL!We discovered early that giving our DS an either/or choice worked best for us. FYI, it works well with hosts, too. It's a form of "bracketology." (Think basketball playoffs.) For my hosts it works like this:Would you prefer September or October?
Would a weekend or weeknight work better for you?
Is Tuesday or Thursday more convenient?
I have the 12th or the 19th open. Which would you like?

 

[ChefBeckyD]

Sounds like a great book. The authors clearly used our strategy--genius. LOL!

We discovered early that giving our DS an either/or choice worked best for us. FYI, it works well with hosts, too. It's a form of "bracketology." (Think basketball playoffs.) For my hosts it works like this:

Would you prefer September or October?
Would a weekend or weeknight work better for you?
Is Tuesday or Thursday more convenient?
I have the 12th or the 19th open. Which would you like?

And we all know how well it worked for The Bates!:thumbup:


LOL - I never thought of it as what I do with hosts - but you are right!

 

[pamperedlinda]

The Love & Logic book is great. I use that with my son and life is so much better. Every now and then I forget and both of us wind up very frusterated.

 

[elizabethfox]

That is too cute! When my niece "Maggie" sneezes, I say Gesundheit! And she says, "No, God Bless me Aunt Krissy"...and I tell her that Gesundheit means God Bless you in German... and she says- God is not German!

How cute is that?

HA HA HA! TOO CUTE!!

My son always says "Kiss you" to someone when they sneeze. I always say "bless you" to him when he sneezes, but I guess he wasn't understanding what I was saying. Cuz everytime he hears a sneeze.... "Kiss you doggie!" "Kiss you mommie!" ROFL

 

[KellyTheChef]

Elizabeth...I like his version better!! lol

 

[amy07]

One of my college courses was Guiding the Behavior of Young Children. We studied the Love & Logic methods - actually the ENTIRE course was based on Love & Logic.
It really is wonderful. But one of the most important things I took from the course is to "NEVER try to reason with a child drunk on power". Works well with adults too!

 

[janetupnorth]

One of my college courses was Guiding the Behavior of Young Children. We studied the Love & Logic methods - actually the ENTIRE course was based on Love & Logic.
It really is wonderful. But one of the most important things I took from the course is to "NEVER try to reason with a child drunk on power". Works well with adults too!

Is that anything like never having a battle of wits with an unarmed man?

(Sorry, Princess Bride quote...couldn't resist...)

 

[chefann]

Is that anything like never having a battle of wits with an unarmed man?

(Sorry, Princess Bride quote...couldn't resist...)

Don't get involved in a land war in Asia.

 

[janetupnorth]

Am I going mad or did the word think escape your lips?

 

[chefann]

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

 

[elizabethfox]

Oh...about the food thing. How can I word that as a choice? Right now I tell him if he doesn't eat (his breakfast, lunch, or dinner) that he will get NOTHING till the next meal time.

That is what I have been doing with my son. He doesn't want to eat his meals, and then wants a snack like an hour later. So I tell him unless he eats his breakfast/lunch/dinner he gets no snacks or dessert until the next meal.

 

[nikked]

If you haven't already checked it out, Half.com has several copies of this book. Half.com is a division of ebay...with set shipping prices and great deals on books. I always check it out before buying new.

I just ordered a copy for myself! Thanks for posting this information. I've tried doing choices over the years with the kids, but have never been able to pull it into all areas. I'm looking forward to reading this!!!!

 

[lacychef]

Sounds like a good book! Thanks for sharing with more of us than just Kelly!