Holiday Plates/Platter Instead of Christmas!

[Jessamary]

So, my question was "do you think it was convenient for Christ to hang on that cross for us?"
That was met with silence...not sure if that is a good sign or not!
QUOTE]

That is probably the best way I've ever heard it put. I hope those over-scheduling parents think about things.

The silence was most definitely a good thing. Uncomfortableness is what makes people grow and think.

You go, girl!:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

 

[SassyCook]

Frankly, I wish the plates were winter instead of Christmas, since there are a LOT of people in the US who adhere to other faiths or none at all.

I would like that too. Thats how we are at home. We have Christmas but not the religious part.

 

[kaseydee]

Ugh that drives me nuts. I allow two extra curricular activities per kid. DS plays violin (and thankfully most of that happens during school hours except closer to concert time) and bowls on a league during the school year. He and DD also go to a pagan youth group once a month but we make sure that meetings don't interfere with life in general. DD, I'm sure, will start up with an interest in something this year with starting Kindergarten. She tried taking Irish Step dancing but that didn't hold her interest... I was kinda relieved. Once a week with a half hour drive (one way) wasn't my thing. LOL

What exactly is pagan? I have learned so much reading this thread & was wondering about this too.

 

[EpTxGuy]

I celebrate Christmas, and I like the Christmas trees on the plates, they're very festive. If calling them holiday plates helps someone who doesn't celebrate Christmas order them because they're fun and frestive, I have no problem with that.

 

[pampered1224]

I also look at it that way. I celebrate Christmas for what it is. I also know I have no right to force my beliefs on anyone else. And besides, only one being has the right to judge any of this anyway and I am not Him.

 

[janetupnorth]

What exactly is pagan? I have learned so much reading this thread & was wondering about this too.

Lisa will be the best one to answer how she defines it and what specifically it means to her because it can have some pretty broad definitions.

It can refer to eastern religions, Native American religions and traditions, many folk religions, spiritualism and the study of earth/nature, wiccan, animistic, polytheistic and other religions.

Since it has such a broad definition, Lisa would have to answer what their beliefs are.

 

[pampchefsarah]

I also look at it that way. I celebrate Christmas for what it is. I also know I have no right to force my beliefs on anyone else. And besides, only one being has the right to judge any of this anyway and I am not Him.

John, wonderfully put! Amen!

Sarah

 

[fikibiff]

I would like to know about pagan, too.

 

[susanr613]

me too! thanks in advance, lisa!

 

[JAE]

I'm glad to see that you can take such a positive approach to this!

I do agree that those are Christmas trees and something like snowflakes would have been a better choice for "Holiday" except there are a lot of areas that don't get snow at the holiday season, should they be offended if it had snowflakes on there! Just being funny and sarcastic!

If people get offended with snowflakes because they don't have snow where they live, they need to know that I am offended that they don't get snow and I have to get a lot of snow for months at a time!

 

[cwinter474]

This is something that bothers me to the core that Christ is taken out of Christmas when without Christ there would be no Christmas. Other holidays do not get named something else to pacify all other religions, so, why should Christmas be discriminated against.

I am sure I will be opening up a can of worms, but if Christians do not stand up to keeping Christ in Christmas then who will?

AMEN - and don't even get me started on trying to keep God in our schools and goverment, If we don't/won't stand up for GOD who will???? and when is enough, enough???

 

[cwinter474]

I need to keep my mouth shut b/c I have very strong opinions on this topic & wouldn't want to offend anyone. I'll just say that I (as a Christian) wouldn't be insulted or offended if someone said Happy Channukah (sp?) or Happy Kwazaa (sp?) to me.
Seems to me that a majority of American & Cdn citizens celebrate Christmas (whether as a religious or commercial occasion) & so we should have to "water it down" for those who don't.

Guess I didn't keep my mouth shut after all. But I tried not to build too big a soap box!

AMEN - We Christians are not offended why is everyone else????

 

[cwinter474]

Then I would not say anything at all. I am not "politically correct" when it comes to Christ's birth.

JRSTEPHENS, YOU rock!!!!

 

[cwinter474]

Anyway, I don't like the "Holiday" term either. The trend is to not offend, but I find we can talk about any other religion in the name of tolerance BUT Christianity.

I just don't understand why we as Christians are always expected to give up parts of our beliefs and culture so that we don't offend everyone else. Yes those people have rights, but what about us? Don't we as Christians and Americans have right?

 

[JAE]

So anyway, I like the plates. I love decorating for Christmas and every year I purchase new decorative plates, bowls, vases, whatever. I want the square tree platter, whatever it is called. I will probably say "Christmas plates" because "holiday" doesn't come out naturally.

 

[cwinter474]

B/c in my thought process the big companies know there are more Non-Christians in this world than there are Christians, so, they use a generic name for a holiday that would not even be celebrated without Christ b/c they know "Christ" could offend a lot of people and cause them to not buy their products. If the companies did not care what people thought about the names of their products, they never would have changed the name from Christmas to Holiday in the first place.

Totally Agree!!

 

[cwinter474]

John, wonderfully put! Amen!

Sarah

Your 100% right John, Some day we will all see how he judges on everything

 

[cwinter474]

ok, I am removing myself from this post, before I upset anyone, and the nasty PM's start flying my way. Once was enough

 

[lkprescott]

What exactly is pagan? I have learned so much reading this thread & was wondering about this too.

Well, it's a hard word to precisely nail a definition too (it's been tried and well, ask 5 pagans for a definition you're bound to get at least 8 LOL) because ultimately it's a very personal spiritual path. However, my definition is: it's a person who self-identifies as a follower of a non-Abrahamic religion that adheres to an earth-centric spirituality or attempts to recreate a pre-Christian religion. It's a blanket term (kinda like Christianity) that has various paths/religions under it. These can include Wicca, Druidry, Asatru (Heathens) and others. There are others who simply identify as Pagan (like there are some who identify as Christian without furthering choosing a denomination as a label). Eclectic Pagan is chosen by those who have gained lots of knowledge and have chosen parts from various sources to create their own 'brand' of spiritual path that still fits within the definition above.

Most pagans I know are the earth-centric kind. Celebrating as most our ancestors did, the flow of the seasons with 8 Sabbats (holidays) a year, approximately 6 to 8 weeks apart that follow either the solar cycle (equinoxes and solstices) or agricultural cycles. Many also celebrate the moon's cycles and otherwise do their best to worship, respect and care for the earth and all her gifts. Some of the holidays have been either taken over through the years (like Easter) or simply renamed (ie Imbolc was renamed Candlemas) and altered to fit the renamers purposes.

My bumper sticker sums my own path pretty well: Tree Hugging Dirt Worshiper

HTH! Obviously, there's much more to it all and if anyone's further curious, feel free to PM. We're not about proselytizing so it's a joy when someone asks.

 

[BethCooks4U]

Well, it's a hard word to precisely nail a definition too (it's been tried and well, ask 5 pagans for a definition you're bound to get at least 8 LOL) because ultimately it's a very personal spiritual path. However, my definition is: it's a person who self-identifies as a follower of a non-Abrahamic religion that adheres to an earth-centric spirituality or attempts to recreate a pre-Christian religion. It's a blanket term (kinda like Christianity) that has various paths/religions under it. These can include Wicca, Druidry, Asatru (Heathens) and others. There are others who simply identify as Pagan (like there are some who identify as Christian without furthering choosing a denomination as a label). Eclectic Pagan is chosen by those who have gained lots of knowledge and have chosen parts from various sources to create their own 'brand' of spiritual path that still fits within the definition above.

Most pagans I know are the earth-centric kind. Celebrating as most our ancestors did, the flow of the seasons with 8 Sabbats (holidays) a year, approximately 6 to 8 weeks apart that follow either the solar cycle (equinoxes and solstices) or agricultural cycles. Many also celebrate the moon's cycles and otherwise do their best to worship, respect and care for the earth and all her gifts. Some of the holidays have been either taken over through the years (like Easter) or simply renamed (ie Imbolc was renamed Candlemas) and altered to fit the renamers purposes.

My bumper sticker sums my own path pretty well: Tree Hugging Dirt Worshiper

HTH! Obviously, there's much more to it all and if anyone's further curious, feel free to PM. We're not about proselytizing so it's a joy when someone asks.

Thanks! I really appreciate all the sharing of different beliefs on this thread! It's wonderful to learn about how our differences make us so alike.

 

[lkprescott]

I just don't understand why we as Christians are always expected to give up parts of our beliefs and culture so that we don't offend everyone else. Yes those people have rights, but what about us? Don't we as Christians and Americans have right?

I think the concept of Holiday vs Christmas has already been poked at enough here and distills to the idea of inclusiveness for ALL (including Christians) instead of exclusion of many. However, I'd like if folks could take a deep breath when it comes to this idea that rights are being squashed upon. Changing holiday names has a long tradition... is it right? It's change and well, that's what life is all about... change. The value of what is done on that holy day though is up to the original. What is in a name... a rose by any other name would still smell as sweet eh? You could call Christmas something all together different but if, for you, it's about the birth of your Savior then by all means, that's the important part, not forcing that on everyone including anyone for whom it might just be any other day (like atheists and Jehovahs Witnesses).

I personally see the Holiday descriptor part in the catalog as a 'fill in the blank'... at our shows we can call them Winter plates, Christmas plates, Yule plates or whatever you feel will help your customers and will sit well with us. Rather than seeing it as a limit, it starts to look pretty flexible, if you ask me.

BTW, I'm not even going to touch the "expected to give up parts of our beliefs and culture" part. This touches too close to me... suffice it to say, prejudice is alive and afoot in a variety of ways and means. As for giving up parts of a culture? The language my grandparents spoke fluently is dead... I know what giving up a piece of my culture feels like. I also know that there's life beyond it and it in no way diminishes my heritage and who I am today.

 

[BethCooks4U]

I celebrate Christmas, and I like the Christmas trees on the plates, they're very festive. If calling them holiday plates helps someone who doesn't celebrate Christmas order them because they're fun and frestive, I have no problem with that.

The trees on those plates remind me very much of some I've seen in stores like Target for years. Kind of retro. Sort of decorated but not. Cutsey (sp) and whimsical.

I think people of most faiths could like them. It's like everything else, some will love them and have to have them and others will pass because it's not their style.

I plan on using them throughout the holidays and will take at least one to my shows all fall but if they aren't your thing then let the catalog sell them for you. When I don't care for something I don't talk about it but still have customers who see them in the book and want it.

The fact that they call them Holiday rather than Christmas is a marketing thing. PC is very aware that many of us think Christmas when we see them and that's normal but why limit our customer base - and the length of time they can be used?

 

[chefmeg]

I just don't understand why we as Christians are always expected to give up parts of our beliefs and culture so that we don't offend everyone else. Yes those people have rights, but what about us? Don't we as Christians and Americans have right?

I try not to look at it like this~no one has asked me to give up my beliefs and I have the right to shop, or not shop, where I choose. If a company chooses to call something "holiday" versus "Christmas" and I feel like they are doing it for self-serving purposes, I can chose not to support that company. As a Christian, I believe it is my responsibility to share what I believe but not to force my opinion on anyone else. As an American, I believe that it is my duty to respect ALL people for their beliefs, no to persecute them because their beliefs are not mine.

 

[ChefBeckyD]

I think the uproar over Christmas is a bit amusing. I am follower of Christ. (more descriptive than the blanket term "Christian".) Yes - the birth of Christ is of GREAT importance to me, as is His life and death, and most importantly, His resurrection. Christmas is a time to reflect and celebrate one part of Who Christ is. The time of year that Christmas is celebrated was chosen to coincide with a Pagan holiday (as Lisa explained) so that Christians - Christ-followers - could celebrate the birth of their Savior w/o attracting too much undue attention. It was almost a "secret" Holy Day (i.e. holiday). As Christianity grew in favor with rulers over time, Christmas was celebrated more openly, and was adopted by those who weren't even followers of Christ.

As Christians, we have come to this belief (Which is actually more of an American belief than a Christian belief) that EVERYONE has to adhere to our faith, or has to move out of the way because we are right and they are wrong. (And yes, I believe that there is only one way to God, and that is through Jesus). But that isn't the way Jesus lived or worked on earth. He loved EVERYONE, and He respected all. He was comfortable with people of other faiths, and the only time he got angry was with religious leaders who abused their position. He knew that by telling the truth - many times in parables(stories) - that the people who were searching for the truth would find it in Him. He was NEVER defensive about His Truth, or felt He had to argue or throw a fit if people didn't believe what He was saying. He simply loved people, and continued to tell the truth.

This is going to make some of my fellow followers of Christ angry - but here goes.....

Being militant doesn't do any good. It may make you feel better, but it pushes others away. It doesn't draw people to Christ. There are so many ways to tell the truth, and live the truth of Christ's love and sacrifice, and the salvation that He brings, without being divisive. You can keep saying "let me be RIGHT", but that isn't going to bring anyone closer to Christ.

I would challenge you to do a study of Christ, and the people He hung out with and befriended, and the way that He spoke to not just those who loved Him, but also those who mocked & cursed Him. Along with that, do a study of how God, through the ages, always reconciled His people back to Himself. It was never through times of prosperity or when they were in power or things were going their way. Those times just made them fall away from God - it was only when they were in captivity, or being persecuted, or other times of adversity, that His people turned back to God...and it was during some of the greatest persecution that The Church saw it's greatest growth both in numbers and spiritual depth.

 

[janetupnorth]

Amen Becky!...and let me add, that doesn't mean giving up any of your faith or believing any less. It just means that you approach others in love.I always remember two verses to try and keep my perspective and help me to love those who disagree:1. I Corinthians 1:18 - For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.I cannot hold anyone of another faith to what I believe for my beliefs do not make sense to them.2. Jeremiah 29:13 - You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart.If that person is seeking God wholeheartedly, they will find Him!

 

[lkprescott]

I think the uproar over Christmas is a bit amusing. I am follower of Christ. (more descriptive than the blanket term "Christian".) Yes - the birth of Christ is of GREAT importance to me, as is His life and death, and most importantly, His resurrection. Christmas is a time to reflect and celebrate one part of Who Christ is. The time of year that Christmas is celebrated was chosen to coincide with a Pagan holiday (as Lisa explained) so that Christians - Christ-followers - could celebrate the birth of their Savior w/o attracting too much undue attention. It was almost a "secret" Holy Day (i.e. holiday). As Christianity grew in favor with rulers over time, Christmas was celebrated more openly, and was adopted by those who weren't even followers of Christ.

As Christians, we have come to this belief (Which is actually more of an American belief than a Christian belief) that EVERYONE has to adhere to our faith, or has to move out of the way because we are right and they are wrong. (And yes, I believe that there is only one way to God, and that is through Jesus). But that isn't the way Jesus lived or worked on earth. He loved EVERYONE, and He respected all. He was comfortable with people of other faiths, and the only time he got angry was with religious leaders who abused their position. He knew that by telling the truth - many times in parables(stories) - that the people who were searching for the truth would find it in Him. He was NEVER defensive about His Truth, or felt He had to argue or throw a fit if people didn't believe what He was saying. He simply loved people, and continued to tell the truth.

This is going to make some of my fellow followers of Christ angry - but here goes.....

Being militant doesn't do any good. It may make you feel better, but it pushes others away. It doesn't draw people to Christ. There are so many ways to tell the truth, and live the truth of Christ's love and sacrifice, and the salvation that He brings, without being divisive. You can keep saying "let me be RIGHT", but that isn't going to bring anyone closer to Christ.

I would challenge you to do a study of Christ, and the people He hung out with and befriended, and the way that He spoke to not just those who loved Him, but also those who mocked & cursed Him. Along with that, do a study of how God, through the ages, always reconciled His people back to Himself. It was never through times of prosperity or when they were in power or things were going their way. Those times just made them fall away from God - it was only when they were in captivity, or being persecuted, or other times of adversity, that His people turned back to God...and it was during some of the greatest persecution that The Church saw it's greatest growth both in numbers and spiritual depth.

Very well said!

Like I've been known to say... telling someone they're wrong doesn't make anyone more right.

 

[chefmeg]

Obviously, I could not have said it better myself, Becky!

 

[jrstephens]

ok, I am removing myself from this post, before I upset anyone, and the nasty PM's start flying my way. Once was enough

Totally Agree!!

JRSTEPHENS, YOU rock!!!!

NO don't go away! I love it when people firmly agree with me!

And it upsets me that as good as we have been to each other in this thread although finding increasingly different beliefs that someone was nasty to you. We talk about being nice to each other in this thread and then somene goes and ruins the nice, respectful way we have been treating each other.

 

[fikibiff]

You go ChefBecky!

 

[susanr613]

"As Christians, we have come to this belief (Which is actually more of an American belief than a Christian belief) that EVERYONE has to adhere to our faith, or has to move out of the way because we are right and they are wrong."

Becky, don't sell America short America is one of the few nations where people can worship as they please. Several colonies were founded as safe haven and one of our fundamental rights is freedom of worship.

Believing that "we're right, you're wrong" is not the exclusive property of some Christians either - I've heard it from Jews, Muslims, and atheists. It's a human thing - the need to be a member of an exclusive group.

Bottom line, believe what you believe, and let me do the same.