Holiday Plates/Platter Instead of Christmas!

[PamperChefCarol]

Everybody makes a good point, but personally i don't care what they are called, I don't think PC should be selling stuff that seasonal, imho. I would not spend my money on something that can basically only be used once maybe twice a year. Nothing to do with religion at all. If they wanted something nice for the holidays they should have done something along the lines of the dessert plates, the gold and white ones. I think these are tacky to be honest and would not buy them if they were on sell at the dollar store.

You need to come to my house. I have holiday china (Lenox Holiday... cream with a gold band and holly around the edges) and I start using it Thanksgiving and right thru New Years. But then again, I am a china freak! If I had room and the money, I would have a set for every occasion. But that's just me. No wonder I love the "holiday" Christmas plates. As with everything PC, to each it's own.

 

[BethCooks4U]

You need to come to my house. I have holiday china (Lenox Holiday... cream with a gold band and holly around the edges) and I start using it Thanksgiving and right thru New Years. But then again, I am a china freak! If I had room and the money, I would have a set for every occasion. But that's just me. No wonder I love the "holiday" Christmas plates. As with everything PC, to each it's own.

Sounds like me. I have Christmas plates - a complete set; some Easter dishes, valentines day dishes... I had Thanksgiving but since that is our Christmas celebration with my long distance (adult) children I now use the Christmas from mid-November through January 6th. I have given away most other seasonal dishes and just go "elegant" - in fact I am hoping one of my kids will take the Christmas set home with them this year.

I decorate to the hilt - crates and crates for all seasons. My team has commented that every time they come I have decorated differently - they exaggerate but just a little.

 

[fikibiff]

No being rude to you personally, but I think this thinking is the logic that advertisers and companies try to use to make people "think" they are really not trying to take Christ out of Christmas when they really are and they are coming up with excuses as to why it is ok to do so.

But isn't that really up to you and your own thought process? Really, why do big companies care 1 way or another if people are celebrating Christ or anything else? They just want to sell stuff and the use of the word holiday applies to the most people.

 

[cmdtrgd]

Okay, I admit to having skimmed through a few posts in this thread, but here's my comments/ideas/psychotic rantings....1. When I first saw the plates, I only thought one of the trees looked like a decorated holiday tree. They all did look like retro trees which I thought was cute.2. Calling them Holiday Plates and Platter makes them more versatile in the home (ie. longer use).3. I would have preferred snowflakes, but there are many places that don't get snow for the holiday season.4. The British (and possibly other European countries) go on "holiday" not vacation, so it may not be something that is purely driven by making this product widely available to many belief systems AND lifestyles AND cultures.5. The "Christmas Tree" tradition was taken from the druids (at least, that is what I have found through my research...please correct me if I'm wrong) and is not "originally" christian. I have found that there was much talk among the christian (I believe mainly Catholic) churches at how to get more people to join the church(es) and rolling the local lore into the local church did help with that.6. Even though the plates and platter are said to be dishwasher safe, the people in the product showcase room at NC said they would suggest hand-washing due to the tree decals being on the underside of the plates and platter, not sandwiched between the glass.7. Why shoot yourself in the foot by insisting to call them Christmas Plates and Platter when you could create a situation where a non-christian didn't purchase them because a. they didn't like that you changed the name or b. they don't celebrate christmas and therefore have no need for them? A suggestion is to have them talk about their winter holiday traditions and help them "see" where these products can fit into their celebration.8. Can Jewish people eat cakes during Chanukkah?

 

[pampchefsarah]

Okay, I admit to having skimmed through a few posts in this thread, but here's my comments/ideas/psychotic rantings....

1. When I first saw the plates, I only thought one of the trees looked like a decorated holiday tree. They all did look like retro trees which I thought was cute.

2. Calling them Holiday Plates and Platter makes them more versatile in the home (ie. longer use).

3. I would have preferred snowflakes, but there are many places that don't get snow for the holiday season.

4. The British (and possibly other European countries) go on "holiday" not vacation, so it may not be something that is purely driven by making this product widely available to many belief systems AND lifestyles AND cultures.

5. The "Christmas Tree" tradition was taken from the druids (at least, that is what I have found through my research...please correct me if I'm wrong) and is not "originally" christian. I have found that there was much talk among the christian (I believe mainly Catholic) churches at how to get more people to join the church(es) and rolling the local lore into the local church did help with that.

6. Even though the plates and platter are said to be dishwasher safe, the people in the product showcase room at NC said they would suggest hand-washing due to the tree decals being on the underside of the plates and platter, not sandwiched between the glass.

7. Why shoot yourself in the foot by insisting to call them Christmas Plates and Platter when you could create a situation where a non-christian didn't purchase them because a. they didn't like that you changed the name or b. they don't celebrate christmas and therefore have no need for them? A suggestion is to have them talk about their winter holiday traditions and help them "see" where these products can fit into their celebration.

8. Can Jewish people eat cakes during Chanukkah?

Susan can correct me if I'm wrong (since we never celebrated Chanukkah when I was a kid), but I believe you're thinking of Passover, when the home is purged of all leavening.

Sarah

 

[jrstephens]

But isn't that really up to you and your own thought process? Really, why do big companies care 1 way or another if people are celebrating Christ or anything else? They just want to sell stuff and the use of the word holiday applies to the most people.

B/c in my thought process the big companies know there are more Non-Christians in this world than there are Christians, so, they use a generic name for a holiday that would not even be celebrated without Christ b/c they know "Christ" could offend a lot of people and cause them to not buy their products. If the companies did not care what people thought about the names of their products, they never would have changed the name from Christmas to Holiday in the first place.

 

[Shawnna]

I am not crazy about the plates either. For holiday plates I would have preferred snow ans snowmen or wreaths, but that is my "holiday" thinking. As a Christian I didn't think about PC taking Christ out of Christmas, but society as a whole clearly is trying to remove Christ from all things. If someone says "happy holidays" to me I am not offended, but I say "Merry Christmas!!!" with all the excitement that comes with those exclamation marks. Why? Because I am celebrating the birth of Jesus Christ and the fact that He was born on this earth through a virgin birth, and that He came specifically to save ME from my sins, and that He died for ME. If I was the only person on earth He still would have come. And the same is true for you and every other person...the Bible says that Jesus doesn't want anyone to perish. That is what I firmly believe and nobody can change my mind. I know what Christ has done in my life. I am not perfect, but I try to always be Christ-like. And, I look at everything spiritually...at least I try to...and make all of my decisions based on it. Do I go around "bashing" other people who believe differently? NO

Every year at Christmas time we go through the same discussions. Governments(cities, counties, states, federal) go out of their way to promote other "religions" but work extra hard to make sure the Christian faith is "hidden away". It is okay for them to promote Jewish holidays...and all the rest...with symbols of those perticular faiths, but it is not okay to promote the Christian faith by putting up a nativity scene, saying Merry Christmas, or Christmas trees. Schools have programs that involve all faiths except the Christian faith...because we can't say Jesus at school. Christains are called intolerant, selfish, and yet we are the ones who are descriminated against. Prayer was taken out of schools and is being taken out of all government functions because of "seperation of church and state". When actually there is no such thing. The constitution says that the government will not tell people how to worship, believe, etc. It doesn't say that we can't do it or that we have to do it...it says that the government will not take that right away from us. People come to America because of the freedoms we have here and then when they get here they try to take our freedoms away...but that is a "whole nother" discussion.

As a Christian we have the right to say Merry Christmas, and to pray, and to talk about our faith...at school, at work, everywhere. When a business says that we can't wear a shirt that promotes the christian faith, they have to ban all shirts that say or depict anything. And to say we must say Happy Holidays, is taking away our freedom of speech and our right to our religion. What is happening is that people who do not agree with the Christian faith are putting up such a fight that schools and employers are afraid of getting into a lawsuit, so they take away our rights. If taken to court, they are generally overturned because they can't discriminate against us.

All that being said...I do not want to offend anyone, just stating my beliefs and feelings on the subject. If you disagree then I am not offended that you disagree. I have enjoyed the discussion on this thread. I like to learn about other faiths...their traditions and holidays. It is part of our heritage. Listening with an open mind helps us each to learn not only about other people, but about our own beliefs as well. I love the story of the Passover feast. God always takes care of His people. And I do not want Easter changed in any way...Jesus rose from the dead on Easter. Yes, we hunt eggs, not for the pagon ritual it began as, but for the celebration of new life...Jesus rose from the dead and promises us a new life. Easter is in the spring when new life is everywhere...baby calves, horses, animals of all kinds, new grass, the trees begin to come to life and flowers begin to bloom. Christmas trees have nothing to do with Jesus, but they are part of our tradition. I collect Santas...not because I think a little fat man comes down the chimney, but because of the spirit of giving that Santa represents...St. Nick was a wonderful man, so Santa is a nice symbol. Christ is what Christmas is all about and as long as we "Christians" teach our children that and live by our faith it doesn't hurt to have a little fun along the way.

Sorry to hijack your thread.

 

[c00p]

I just found this thread this am and I have to chime in. For those of us that are at least 30+ years old, think back to when you were a child and you were out shopping in December. EVERYONE said Merry Christmas to you. EVERYONE. Here we are now in the "new era" so concerned about being politically correct, and somehow, no one seems to remember that in the past, it wasn't a problem!!!!! I agree that the plates are clearly Christmas plates - not a holiday plate. I've got all kinds of thoughts and feelings on this and boy, could I lay them out. However, I think I'll keep most of them to myself.

I do appreciate hearing that the Greek symbol for Christ is an "X" - I use a "t" and to me, I think of the lower case "t" as the cross.

 

[lkprescott]

Okay, I admit to having skimmed through a few posts in this thread, but here's my comments/ideas/psychotic rantings....

1. When I first saw the plates, I only thought one of the trees looked like a decorated holiday tree. They all did look like retro trees which I thought was cute.

2. Calling them Holiday Plates and Platter makes them more versatile in the home (ie. longer use).

3. I would have preferred snowflakes, but there are many places that don't get snow for the holiday season.

4. The British (and possibly other European countries) go on "holiday" not vacation, so it may not be something that is purely driven by making this product widely available to many belief systems AND lifestyles AND cultures.

5. The "Christmas Tree" tradition was taken from the druids (at least, that is what I have found through my research...please correct me if I'm wrong) and is not "originally" christian. I have found that there was much talk among the christian (I believe mainly Catholic) churches at how to get more people to join the church(es) and rolling the local lore into the local church did help with that.

6. Even though the plates and platter are said to be dishwasher safe, the people in the product showcase room at NC said they would suggest hand-washing due to the tree decals being on the underside of the plates and platter, not sandwiched between the glass.

7. Why shoot yourself in the foot by insisting to call them Christmas Plates and Platter when you could create a situation where a non-christian didn't purchase them because a. they didn't like that you changed the name or b. they don't celebrate christmas and therefore have no need for them? A suggestion is to have them talk about their winter holiday traditions and help them "see" where these products can fit into their celebration.

8. Can Jewish people eat cakes during Chanukkah?

The history of the Christmas tree is, like many things from our history, full of various beginnings but most credit the Germanic folks with the idea as we know it and with bringing it to the New World. The Germanic folks also brought over the idea of Easter Trees that some PA Dutch in this area continue with but I've not seen in any other area (an Easter tree is a non-evergreen decorated with either blown or plastic eggs for Springtime - symbolizing the new life blossoming in the symbol as well as the budding tree).

However, according to one of my books (The Winter Solstice by John Matthews), the tradition of decorating with greens during the various ancient winter holidays shows up in ancient Britain and in ancient Roman lore as well. Another evergreen of importance that the Druids did utilize and still honor (modern day Druids that is) is mistletoe. A plant that relies on another (parasitic in nature) yet was seen as magical for it bore its fruit on/or near the Winter Solstice. There's actually a great chapter in the book I mention on all the greens, their historical relevance and why it is that folks today (even when they don't realize it) decorate with them... fir trees, ivy, holly, mistletoe... It's such a magical time of year for me, no wonder I love the Yuletide. LOL...

However, one symbol that does seem to span most of the Winter holidays is that of light. I think HO would have done even better to offer something for as many peoples as possible (regardless of faith, religion or spiritual path) with perhaps a depiction of candles... perhaps another year? Personally, I have very little space to store things and while my collection of decorations has more things for the Yuletide than any other seasonal holiday, I can't say I have room for special plates. I love making the season last and enjoying all the things it offers. Even though we have another holiday 6 or so weeks later it's not as grandiose and played up as Yule... and as such celebrations helped our ancestors make the most of the short days and long nights, it too helps lift our spirits, regardless of motivation or personal belief. :thumbup: Ironically enough, my family has in years passed decided to downplay certain features of the holiday - like the 'orgy' of excessive gift giving (and the stress that seemed to precede it). For the children, yes, they get a visit from Santa and their special jammies and ornament that's all their own. And for the adults? They get the gifts of our time, love and energy. Thankfully, I have a family that 'gets it' and responds in kind. There's another book Unplug The Christmas Machine that was in part, our inspiration - another was simply wanting to make it fun again, and do away with the pressures I see others bear and the pressure I used to feel of finding the 'right' this or that.

Oh but I've rambled on long enough... LOL. This has been a fun and informative thread. I'm thankful for those who have read with an open mind toward better understanding among a variety of faiths, religions and spiritual paths.

 

[BethCooks4U]

Thanks Lisa and Susan, your insight is very informational. I love learning about where things originated and about how others' traditions differ from mine and how alike they are as well.

This thread could easily have gotten hot but it's refreshing to see an intelligent, thought provoking discussion from people of all points of view.

 

[rennea]

I would love to come spend the holiday season with your family Lisa. I don't consider your posts rambling, educational yes!! So many people are not educated on were our "holidays" and symbols originate and it really annoys me.

 

[lkprescott]

I would love to come spend the holiday season with your family Lisa. I don't consider your posts rambling, educational yes!! So many people are not educated on were our "holidays" and symbols originate and it really annoys me.

Thanks Rennea... I'm glad my ramblings have done more than bore. LOL..

 

[Kitchen Diva]

I think that this has been such a cool thread! Thanks to everyone for really sharing your hearts, your beliefs, your traditions... and thanks for doing it kindly, calmly and with love!

 

[pcchefjane]

Who would have known how educational this thread would become? Thanks for all the information. I can remember as a child, one of my friends was Jewish but since her mother was "Gentile"/Christian, they celebrated both Christmas and Hanukkah. We all took turns reading passages from the Bible each morning before "schoolwork" started and all the Jewish kids just read from the Old Testament. No one thought anything about it!:angel: Course I am almost 56 years old and this was in the late 50s to early 60s before everything had to be so "politically correct"!

 

[Shawnna]

I don't remember ever reading the Bible at school, but we used to sing patriotic songs, pray, say the pledge of allegiance to the flag, and even sang a hymn sometimes. Now they don't even salute the flag.

 

[janetupnorth]

We read the Bible in English in HS, but it was a "literary" exercise and my teacher mocked the meaning of scripture. (The guy had a psychological breakdown about 10 years later and locked a classroom of kids in and held them hostage for 1/2 a day). Anyway, my DD goes to a Lutheran School. They say the pledge of allegiance daily, have daily devotions, chapel once a week and also sing plenty of hymns. We'll decide what happens when we get to 7-8th grade and our beliefs differ more, but right now we are pretty much dead on with them except when it comes to salvation. They are a very conservative WELS church. My DD fully knows what she believes though and knows where and why she differs and will point out scripture to back up her beliefs. I encourage her to search out what she believes and why. So, I am THANKFUL for what she gets to learn daily there in school. It only costs me $394 for the school year to send her there and I think at this time well-worth not having her in other schools.

 

[susanr613]

"My DD fully knows what she believes though and knows where and why she differs and will point out scripture to back up her beliefs. I encourage her to search out what she believes and why."After all this (wonderful) discussion on what the outside world/society says, Janet makes a great point - learning, values, and beliefs begin at home. My DS is very secure and grounded in Judaism, due to having two parents who have been teaching him about it since he was a small child, participating in holiday rituals and family dinners, and from attending Hebrew school since first grade. I have told him that eventually, he will decide for himself, and I think he'll be a person of faith when he's an adult.

 

[janetupnorth]

We actually had that discussion at church a little today. We are hiring a new Family Life and Discipleship Pastor at church. When asked what his vision was, part of the answer was to give FAMILIES the TOOLS to raise their children and teach them at home. To help train parents to train kids.Too often, people think it is the school's job to teach or the church's job to teach. When in reality, it is the PARENT'S job to train and teach and raise. Schools and churches are just tools to help get to that goal. We can't drop off our kids at those places and expect them to walk out with values and beliefs and education as we wish. We need to back it up at home. That discussion goes beyond religion to all types of education.

 

[Shawnna]

I would hate to depend on the public school system to teach my children morals and values. My daddy was a teacher...a great one, actually just retired after teaching/administration for 36 years...and things have certainly changed. The "everything goes" and "there is no black or white" mentality of todays society is scary. I talk to my children every day about the fact that Jesus sees everything they do and they need to be a good example for others. Its sad to say that even teachers...and sometimes people in the church...are bad influences on our children.

 

[lkprescott]

"My DD fully knows what she believes though and knows where and why she differs and will point out scripture to back up her beliefs. I encourage her to search out what she believes and why."

After all this (wonderful) discussion on what the outside world/society says, Janet makes a great point - learning, values, and beliefs begin at home. My DS is very secure and grounded in Judaism, due to having two parents who have been teaching him about it since he was a small child, participating in holiday rituals and family dinners, and from attending Hebrew school since first grade. I have told him that eventually, he will decide for himself, and I think he'll be a person of faith when he's an adult.

Agreed. I was raised with morals and values being separate from spiritual beliefs, though one can definitely fuel the other. I've come to have my own pretty stringent code of honor (that's what I call it for lack of better descriptor) and my kids know what it is, what's expected of them and how to treat others as well as themselves. My 12 yo has become a very generous soul who loves to help. He earned a citizenship award at the end of the school year for simply being himself (and that was only from observations made at school - not what he's done outside of school) which surprised the pants off him ("What'd I do Mom?"... "you were yourself, you offered help, you gave of yourself without expecting anything in return and that's pretty darned cool").

I know some folks may think that raising our kids in a 'non-mainstream' spiritual home may cause confusion and conflict but we do work hard at giving them info not only on what we believe but what others do and how it all can be respected and learned from. He's also lost 'friends' who held his non-Christian ways against him but he's learned the hard lesson that those weren't his friends. One of his friends (good egg, he) stood up and said it didn't matter to him... :thumbup:

Kids will get lessons from all sorts of folks but parents are their first and most important teachers. I've seen some sit back and figure the schools (or others) will give their kids what they should be giving (I once had a friend who figured Catholic school would do the 'hard work' for him)... but no way I'd let anyone else take the reins with my kids. Ultimately, their life will be their own but until then they will learn the celebrations of the seasons, the morals and values that have guided me well and know they have a network of loving adults in their life from a variety of paths and religions just ready to help, when they're ready, for more formal lessons.

 

[chefmeg]

we just had a discussion at church this week about letting others raise our children...we depend entirely too much on others to give our children morals and values, and then we complain about what they come back with! (by "we" I mean alot of our generation, certainly not anyone on this thread!).
An example~our Religious Education prgram is offered 3 times a week at varying hours so that most kids that have 2 working parents can get them there. STILL, there is a group of church members that thinks it isn't "convenient" enough for them because of all the other extra curricular activites. So, my question was "do you think it was convenient for Christ to hang on that cross for us?"
That was met with silence...not sure if that is a good sign or not!
If we as parents are not our children's first representation of God and Christ, then we must suffer the consequences of who could be.

 

[jrstephens]

An example~our Religious Education prgram is offered 3 times a week at varying hours so that most kids that have 2 working parents can get them there. STILL, there is a group of church members that thinks it isn't "convenient" enough for them because of all the other extra curricular activites. So, my question was "do you think it was convenient for Christ to hang on that cross for us?"

It does get so aggravating when parents cannot make the time to get their children there. I have said over and over, if it was some other event like sports or something of outside interest parents have no problem getting them their when they need to be there and on time. I get so aggravated to hear some people complain about church activities when half the time they do not make the committment to make sure their children are involved. They are the first to complain about something though! Although I love sports and other activies my children's salvation in Jesus is much more important and I do not see why others cannot feel the same way.

We had a meeting yeterday of regrouping our activities committee to have more things for our children and adults. Our goal is to have something other than our regular services and things at least once a month. You can bet there will be plenty that cannot find the time for them though.

And my feelings are that it does NOT take a village to raise a child it takes PARENTS!

 

[ChefBeckyD]

we just had a discussion at church this week about letting others raise our children...we depend entirely too much on others to give our children morals and values, and then we complain about what they come back with! (by "we" I mean alot of our generation, certainly not anyone on this thread!).
An example~our Religious Education prgram is offered 3 times a week at varying hours so that most kids that have 2 working parents can get them there. STILL, there is a group of church members that thinks it isn't "convenient" enough for them because of all the other extra curricular activites. So, my question was "do you think it was convenient for Christ to hang on that cross for us?"
That was met with silence...not sure if that is a good sign or not!
If we as parents are not our children's first representation of God and Christ, then we must suffer the consequences of who could be.

In my area, little league sports has become a god and a religion. Games and practices 7 days a week, and if your child isn't there, then they don't get to play.
I see this as stemming from 2 different things -
1. The children are in control of the family schedule instead of the parents

and

2. Parents are living vicariously through their children.

Either way, it's completely unhealthy for the family and the kids.

 

[cookingwithlove]

HOLY DAY = Holiday

 

[lkprescott]

In my area, little league sports has become a god and a religion. Games and practices 7 days a week, and if your child isn't there, then they don't get to play.
I see this as stemming from 2 different things -
1. The children are in control of the family schedule instead of the parents

and

2. Parents are living vicariously through their children.

Either way, it's completely unhealthy for the family and the kids.

Ugh that drives me nuts. I allow two extra curricular activities per kid. DS plays violin (and thankfully most of that happens during school hours except closer to concert time) and bowls on a league during the school year. He and DD also go to a pagan youth group once a month but we make sure that meetings don't interfere with life in general. DD, I'm sure, will start up with an interest in something this year with starting Kindergarten. She tried taking Irish Step dancing but that didn't hold her interest... I was kinda relieved. Once a week with a half hour drive (one way) wasn't my thing. LOL

 

[ChefBeckyD]

Ugh that drives me nuts. I allow two extra curricular activities per kid. DS plays violin (and thankfully most of that happens during school hours except closer to concert time) and bowls on a league during the school year. He and DD also go to a pagan youth group once a month but we make sure that meetings don't interfere with life in general. DD, I'm sure, will start up with an interest in something this year with starting Kindergarten. She tried taking Irish Step dancing but that didn't hold her interest... I was kinda relieved. Once a week with a half hour drive (one way) wasn't my thing. LOL

Drives me nuts too - sometimes I have to bite my tongue when they start talking about how they never sit down to eat as a family....or they just run through drive-thru's, because they are so busy running kids all over. (I hear it all the time at shows.) And that's in the summer! When DS is old enough (it's coming quickly!) I'll probably do the same as you, and help him choose 1 or 2 extra curricular activities at a time.

 

[jrstephens]

My BF (best friend NOT boy friend, HAHA!) has a strict rule that her kids can only do one thing at a time. I think it is a great rule to have. And she sticks to it too.

 

[Teresa Lynn]

well, I'm one of those parents generally our children only did 1 thing at a time. We did drive thru because we don't live in town near the school, dance studio or ball fields &
we spend alot of the time driving up and down the road because when you have more than 1 kid no ones activities are at the same time and when they are it's a whole different kind of H#LL (do you drop one off super early make one late?? Whose game do you go to? etc)

 

[Shawnna]

sports have become the main focus of our school systems and a lot of families. I played basketball and softball in school, but we had 2 games a week and practiced during PE...back then everyone played, so there was just one girls and one boys PE. Today, kids play a game nearly every day, lots of Saturdays they play 3 games, practice on Wednesdays and Sundays. Summers are spent playing little league and now the schools are even playing during the summer. It drives me crazy. Everyone complains about how the schools don't have money for education and budget cuts, but they are driving those buses all across the state to play a ball game...it is ridiculous. Focus has shifted from values, morals and a good education to winning a state championship. They hold kids back...straight A students...so they can grow another year and be bigger for jr. high sports. We are sending our kids to school when they are barely 3 and then holding them there an extra year. The tax payers are getting ripped off. It costs a lot of money to educate a child for one year.

 

[susanr613]

Reading the sports posts reminds me of how the parents "complain" about running around every day with their kids to a zillion sports....sort of the same way colleagues of mine "complain" about working a zillion hours a week. People that "complain" like this feel (IMO)

- It's "noble" to overwork/overactivity
- Missing family time or downtime doesn't matter
- The work/sports/actvities take precedence over everything else
- There's no negative impact

So sad!