Is Normal Wear and Tear Covered Under Lifetime Cookware Guarantees?

[chef131doreen]

So I just listened to Lisa Amblo again the Queen of selling Cookware , Now we have been trained by her and she says LIFETIME all the time , If you scrach it you will get another one and on and on , This is why people buy our cookware because of the LIFETIME replacment
Maybe HO should listen to the training they tell us to listen too

Player

 

[heat123]

I was Suprised and disapointed with this newswire. If they are no longer going to Honor the Lifetime warrenty (especially on every day wear and tear) then I agree, they need to relable it limited lifteime warrenty! I totally get the misuse or abuse but come on.... Rididculous!

 

[nikked]

ditto to the why have we been selling it as "lifetime" if it's not really lifetime crowd!

 

[RMDave]

I guess the term "lifetime" has different meanings to different people. I mean, a "lifetime warranty" does mean something different to an 85 year old grandmother than to her 25 year old grandchild.

 

[nikked]

Hubby just brought up that folks that purchased under the "lifetime warranty" banner may begin suing...I know I probably would if something like this happened...false advertising and all that jazz...big can o worms for TPC.

 

[RMDave]

Well if there is a Class Action lawsuit against TPC, my guess is that Consultants won't be dragged into it ... TPC has the cash, we have none .. our biggest mistake was drinking the KoolAid that HO happily provided.

 

[Chefgirl2]

Read carefully and make your own decisions.

This policy change is a work in progress. According to HO they have replaced so many products that should never have been returned due to OBVIOUS misuse. If guests are using the products according to "use and care" and if it comes to needing to be replaced then on inspection it will be obvious to the home office on how it was treated.

They are taking each return case by case.

I thought of the L.L.Bean reference made earlier. I love L.L. Bean! My daughter got a backpack with wheels when she started 1st grade. In 3rd grade I noticed her initials had unravelled and the bottom of the bag was beginning to look worn out. I had it replaced. Toward the end of 5th grade the bottom started to look worn again. I didn't replace it because I felt like we didn't deserve to get a brand new bag. For two years she drug that bag through mudpuddles and gravel daily. Yes, I paid over $70, but turning it in for a replacement didn't seem quite right since it still worked. We eventually retired that bag in 7th grade when using a backpack on wheels wasn't the "cool" thing to do anymore. I feel like I got my money's worth with that bag.

I know many people would argue that the company wants them to send it back in for a new one. I think the company knows that most people feel like they got years of value out of their products. It might not look the grandest, but it still does the job. Pampered Chef cannot afford to replace items that have been abused by ignorance or on purpose knowing "it" can be replaced.

I'm going to educate my guests and past customers on why we have such a great policy and affordable prices. By treating their products normally they will have a lifetime of great cooking. If by some chance there is peeling then the company will easily be able to see a true defect if one should occur. When they ask me for help I'll give them the 1888-our-chef number at let them know that when they call they will be asked these questions:

1. Which piece of cookware?
2. How have you been using it? (Stovetop, oven...campfire?)
3. When did you first notice the problem? (5 years or just the other day)
4. Tell me a bit about how you use it? How you store it? (stacking cookware without protectors or cloths can cause scratching which can lead to peeling)
5. What type of utensils do you use?
6. How do you clean it?

If there is no obvious misuse then they will be asked to mail in the cookware for inspection. The company will easily be able to identify misuse from defect and if they aren't doing anything to cause damage then it must be a manufacturer's defect with the coating.

I am going to save these questions on my desktop so I can see if it is worth my customer's time to even call, and to make sure they aren't mislead.

During my 4 calls that I made to HO about this I encountered 2 argumentative and sarcastic reps. I am in the habit of jotting down names before I speak "Hi Jill (and Gina), this is Elaine(writing down her name as I talk) I could not believe the attitude that Jill slung at me! And, it wasn't even about my question, but about another change that I hadn't even thought about. Both reps were condescending and got louder when I questioned them on the warranties that I knew had changed after the products were on the market. When their supervisor called me back I let her know that my upline director, Beth Jacob, was addament that I let HO know about both girls being rude. Funny, when I asked Jill to stop yelling she dramatically whispered that I should call my upline director. I told her I didn't appreciate her being a smart***.

This is my reputation on the line. Goodbye. I picked up the phone and called Beth who made me see the how and why's of the change and have faith that it is going to be okay. A few minutes later HO called, I was given the above info and hopefully, Jill and Gina are both being repremanded so they won't tick off consultants or our customers. I also sang the praises of rep Debi who should really get a raise for her patience in dealing with these calls all day.

Then I asked about the lid for the DCB and how I need it to be a replacement part...which is another thread that I am too tired to start right now.

 

[Dina Atnip]

I emailed HO about my concerns I totally disagree with this. Unless they could tell if a very sharp object was used to damage the cookware. Normal use should show a difference and since it is lifetime then lifetime it should be.

 

[chefsteph07]

I guess the term "lifetime" has different meanings to different people. I mean, a "lifetime warranty" does mean something different to an 85 year old grandmother than to her 25 year old grandchild.

Why should it matter if I sell a piece to an 85 yr old or a 25 yr old? Does that mean that 2 sets of rules apply to each? Lifetime should mean lifetime, whatever age you are.

 

[chefsteph07]

Read carefully and make your own decisions.

This policy change is a work in progress. According to HO they have replaced so many products that should never have been returned due to OBVIOUS misuse. If guests are using the products according to "use and care" and if it comes to needing to be replaced then on inspection it will be obvious to the home office on how it was treated.

They are taking each return case by case.

I thought of the L.L.Bean reference made earlier. I love L.L. Bean! My daughter got a backpack with wheels when she started 1st grade. In 3rd grade I noticed her initials had unravelled and the bottom of the bag was beginning to look worn out. I had it replaced. Toward the end of 5th grade the bottom started to look worn again. I didn't replace it because I felt like we didn't deserve to get a brand new bag. For two years she drug that bag through mudpuddles and gravel daily. Yes, I paid over $70, but turning it in for a replacement didn't seem quite right since it still worked. We eventually retired that bag in 7th grade when using a backpack on wheels wasn't the "cool" thing to do anymore. I feel like I got my money's worth with that bag.

I know many people would argue that the company wants them to send it back in for a new one. I think the company knows that most people feel like they got years of value out of their products. It might not look the grandest, but it still does the job. Pampered Chef cannot afford to replace items that have been abused by ignorance or on purpose knowing "it" can be replaced.

I'm going to educate my guests and past customers on why we have such a great policy and affordable prices. By treating their products normally they will have a lifetime of great cooking. If by some chance there is peeling then the company will easily be able to see a true defect if one should occur. When they ask me for help I'll give them the 1888-our-chef number at let them know that when they call they will be asked these questions:

1. Which piece of cookware?
2. How have you been using it? (Stovetop, oven...campfire?)
3. When did you first notice the problem? (5 years or just the other day)
4. Tell me a bit about how you use it? How you store it? (stacking cookware without protectors or cloths can cause scratching which can lead to peeling)
5. What type of utensils do you use?
6. How do you clean it?

If there is no obvious misuse then they will be asked to mail in the cookware for inspection. The company will easily be able to identify misuse from defect and if they aren't doing anything to cause damage then it must be a manufacturer's defect with the coating.

I am going to save these questions on my desktop so I can see if it is worth my customer's time to even call, and to make sure they aren't mislead.

During my 4 calls that I made to HO about this I encountered 2 argumentative and sarcastic reps. I am in the habit of jotting down names before I speak "Hi Jill (and Gina), this is Elaine(writing down her name as I talk) I could not believe the attitude that Jill slung at me! And, it wasn't even about my question, but about another change that I hadn't even thought about. Both reps were condescending and got louder when I questioned them on the warranties that I knew had changed after the products were on the market. When their supervisor called me back I let her know that my upline director, Beth Jacob, was addament that I let HO know about both girls being rude. Funny, when I asked Jill to stop yelling she dramatically whispered that I should call my upline director. I told her I didn't appreciate her being a smart***.

This is my reputation on the line. Goodbye. I picked up the phone and called Beth who made me see the how and why's of the change and have faith that it is going to be okay. A few minutes later HO called, I was given the above info and hopefully, Jill and Gina are both being repremanded so they won't tick off consultants or our customers. I also sang the praises of rep Debi who should really get a raise for her patience in dealing with these calls all day.

Then I asked about the lid for the DCB and how I need it to be a replacement part...which is another thread that I am too tired to start right now.

Elaine, thanks for this info...so did they admit that these changes were "new" for the lifetime warranty, or are they saying that all these rules have already been in place since day one and they are just NOW enforcing them like this?

Oh, and about the replacement DCB lid, I hear ya. I have TWO bakers with bottoms and no tops. One of them a customer dropped at her show 2 yrs ago, I called HO and explained what happened and got no problems with a replacement (in fact, the CS girl even overnight me a new baker bc I told her I needed it for a show), then a month ago, my lid slid off my counter after I washed it and it shattered. This time however, the girl was no so understanding. She informed me that how it broke did not fall under the warranty and I had to buy a whole new baker!

So, I did..(and ONLY used the lid for it) bc I use it at EVERY show and at least 3x a week at home but I was shocked and upset! I said I couldn't believe I couldn't just order a new lid and she basically said that's the way it goes...no sympathy, nothing...

 

[RMDave]

Why should it matter if I sell a piece to an 85 yr old or a 25 yr old? Does that mean that 2 sets of rules apply to each? Lifetime should mean lifetime, whatever age you are.

Yes but "lifetime" does in fact mean different things to different people.

If you were a plumber who installed an all "Copper" sprinkler system for your client on the basis of it lasting a long time, and the client who "bought into it" was 85 years old, in many courts, the plumber would be considered taking advantage of an elderly client.

 

[nancycookspc]

HMMMM- I wonder what the TEST kitchens pots look like???

 

[chefjeanine]

Here’s what I think needs to happen now. Pampered Chef eliminates the “lifetime guarantee” label for anything purchased after 03-31-2010. Anything purchased prior will be treated the way many of us view “lifetime”.

I don’t know what they can or would call the new guarantee but I truly think this policy needs to be changed. . . NOW!

 

[RMDave]

Well its going to take a while for HO do do anything. First it has to be run by their "Legal" department and then they need the new policy signed off at every step of the process. Just be careful what you say about the pots and pans.

 

[chefjeanine]

Well its going to take a while for HO do do anything. First it has to be run by their "Legal" department and then they need the new policy signed off at every step of the process. Just be careful what you say about the pots and pans.

Hey, if they were not yet ready to take action, they should not have started talking out loud. A lot can be accomplished in a very short amount of time when it needs to happen.

 

[chefsteph07]

Yes but "lifetime" does in fact mean different things to different people.

If you were a plumber who installed an all "Copper" sprinkler system for your client on the basis of it lasting a long time, and the client who "bought into it" was 85 years old, in many courts, the plumber would be considered taking advantage of an elderly client.

I have no idea what that even has to do w/ anything.
Are you saying that we all "bought into" the fact that we have been trained for years to belive one thing when in fact it really was different all along just to sell cookware and now they are tired of replacing all these pieces so NOW they are implementing their "real" warranty? So, are we all being taken advantage of?

We have all be TRAINED to tell our customers "this is the last set of cookware you will EVER buy"...whether I sell to a 19 yr old college student or an 85 yr old woman who tires of buying a $20 pan every 6 mo.

I don't believe that ANY of us has interpreted "lifetime guarantee" any other way than what we have been trained on from National Conferences to tapes, to training meetings, etc. Obviously, or else all of us would not be questioning this "new" policy.

 

[littlemaisyPC]

To me lifetime means an investment. The product should last a lifetime not your lifetime, so you should be able to pass it on to your children and they can continue to enjoy the lifetime gurantee as well. I also say "this will be the last cookware you'll ever have to buy". Sad that this will have to change.

 

[ShelbyMichalek]

I have no idea what that even has to do w/ anything.
Are you saying that we all "bought into" the fact that we have been trained for years to belive one thing when in fact it really was different all along just to sell cookware and now they are tired of replacing all these pieces so NOW they are implementing their "real" warranty? So, are we all being taken advantage of?

We have all be TRAINED to tell our customers "this is the last set of cookware you will EVER buy"...whether I sell to a 19 yr old college student or an 85 yr old woman who tires of buying a $20 pan every 6 mo.

I don't believe that ANY of us has interpreted "lifetime guarantee" any other way than what we have been trained on from National Conferences to tapes, to training meetings, etc. Obviously, or else all of us would not be questioning this "new" policy.

For one, why is an 85 year old woman buying a pan every 6 months? That's not normal. My 89 year old Grandmother has had 3 sets of cookware her entire life and I don't think she ever went out every 6 months to buy another $20 pan.

Second. Not "all of us" are questioning this "new" policy. Not only is it not NEW it is simply being ENFORCED. But I'm not questioning it at all.

Let me ask this. If you were someone up there in charge with HO wouldn't you be really pissed off if someone sent in a pan completely and rudely expecting a replacement when it was obvious they ran it over 40 times? That may seem exaggerated but that is simply the point they are trying to make! They don't want you abusing your products and expecting something in return! They WILL admit when they have a defective product! Since when haven't they? But this is them taking a stand for all the money they've wasted on some careless customers!

Don't blame the Home Office. Blame the people abusing the system.

 

[chefsteph07]

For one, why is an 85 year old woman buying a pan every 6 months? That's not normal. My 89 year old Grandmother has had 3 sets of cookware her entire life and I don't think she ever went out every 6 months to buy another $20 pan.

Second. Not "all of us" are questioning this "new" policy. Not only is it not NEW it is simply being ENFORCED. But I'm not questioning it at all.

Let me ask this. If you were someone up there in charge with HO wouldn't you be really pissed off if someone sent in a pan completely and rudely expecting a replacement when it was obvious they ran it over 40 times? That may seem exaggerated but that is simply the point they are trying to make! They don't want you abusing your products and expecting something in return! They WILL admit when they have a defective product! Since when haven't they? But this is them taking a stand for all the money they've wasted on some careless customers!

Don't blame the Home Office. Blame the people abusing the system.

Ok, so maybe it's not "normal" for an 85 yr old woman to buy a pan every sisx mo, that was a slight exaggeration, but I WILL say that "I" used to buy cookware ONCE A YEAR before PC. And, I didn't run it over 40 times! (and, that cookware was a bit more than $20 per pan)

And I would say that the majority of consultants WILL be questioning this version of the warranty. If you have been around PC any length of time, you will know how we have been told BY HO to present the cookware to our customers.

 

[babywings76]

For one, why is an 85 year old woman buying a pan every 6 months? That's not normal. My 89 year old Grandmother has had 3 sets of cookware her entire life and I don't think she ever went out every 6 months to buy another $20 pan.

Second. Not "all of us" are questioning this "new" policy. Not only is it not NEW it is simply being ENFORCED. But I'm not questioning it at all.

Let me ask this. If you were someone up there in charge with HO wouldn't you be really pissed off if someone sent in a pan completely and rudely expecting a replacement when it was obvious they ran it over 40 times? That may seem exaggerated but that is simply the point they are trying to make! They don't want you abusing your products and expecting something in return! They WILL admit when they have a defective product! Since when haven't they? But this is them taking a stand for all the money they've wasted on some careless customers!

Don't blame the Home Office. Blame the people abusing the system.

I totally agree that they need to be enforcing their policy. I agree that people abusing the system makes it a big expense and HO needs to put an end to people getting away with it. The main issue I have is that of the expression of normal wear and tear. It's the fact that the latest non-stick coating hasn't been around a lifetime. They don't know how it's going to wear many years down the road. If I take care of my cookware properly, and over time it loses it's non-stick properties or it develops bad scratches even with using the proper tools, or it starts coming off, I'm going to want a replacement. My question is will that be covered or will they say it's normal wear and tear? They gave pictures of all the other categories, but not of what they feel is something that is normal wear and tear that they wouldn't accept. This is where the clarification needs to come in.

 

[chefsteph07]

Amanda, where were the pics? I must have missed that.

 

[Curlyone]

This has really gotten me upset too. I sent back my skillet from my kit (less than a year old) and they replaced it and the peeling spatula. I have been using the skillet for only eggs that I cook, no one else in my family even touches my pans, the new pan (it is about 9 months old now) is in just as bad a shape as the first one that I returned.

I can see why with using the photos they provided, they would not replace the products, but come on now, if I can get my pans to peel and I am the consultant, what am I supposed to tell my customers? Lifetime means lifetime period! That is what they teach us and that is what I tell my customers. These pans come out of China, could it be possible that the quality assurance / inspectors are not catching a problem? Maybe PC needs to see it from the manufacturing site as a possible issue, not from the customer side as their misuse or abuse.

And ditto on the DCB lid. I don't even use the large oven mits when handling that cover. I make sure that I use one that has a grip on it. Mine has a hairline crack in it, but I won't be sending it back! They really need to make it a replacement part.

 

[ChefBeckyD]

Amanda, where were the pics? I must have missed that.

If you go to the email, and click on each specific reason why something won't be replaced, there is a picture for example. Each one is very extreme.

 

[chefsteph07]

Ok, I just saw the pics, did anyone notice that on all the pics except the handle in the abuse part, all the cookware seemed to be from the Professional line (except for the stainless pan)

I would like to see some extreme pics from the executive line. like the nonstick peeling.

 

[plannerose]

When I hear "Lifetime Warranty", I think of it lasting a lifetime. If after 10 years of normal using and not abusing it it starts to have issues then I expect the company to uphold the lifetime warranty due to the simply fact of when I bought it I was told it would last me a lifetime. I am a new consultant and I am very reluctant to now push the cookware. I would feel that I am lieing to them since normal wear and tear is not covered. I currently have Emeril cookware and cast iron skillets and I was thinking of buying the nonstick skillets from PC but after reading the newswire I have decided that I am not going to be investing into it because it would not be worth the money for me.

Rose

 

[chefsteph07]

Rose, it's definitely worth the money!
I've had the exec since it came out and have had no problems with it, except for that 8 in skillet I spoke of previously. I have never had a pan perform so well!
However, as you stated about having it for ten years or more and wanting a replacement for some peeling or nonstick coating coming off, that's what I worry about.

 

[plannerose]

Rose, it's definitely worth the money!
I've had the exec since it came out and have had no problems with it, except for that 8 in skillet I spoke of previously. I have never had a pan perform so well!
However, as you stated about having it for ten years or more and wanting a replacement for some peeling or nonstick coating coming off, that's what I worry about.

That is what I am worried about. I cook ALOT so I know that I would be one of the ones compaining if after 5-10 years my stuff starting peeling and was told it would not be replaced.

Rose

 

[chef131doreen]

You are right If they are going to change the return policy then they NEED TO STICK TO THE OLD POLICY FOR THE PANS THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN SOLD. Alot of coments have been from new consultants that may not have sold thousands of dollars worth of pans yet, Us older consultants that have been selling cookware for 9 years have been trained that guests can WILL the pans to there kids never need to buy another pan again .

The tapes I have been relistening to have even taken a metel knife and scrached the grill pan and said don't worry if I scrached it you will get a new on ( with HO people in the right there listening to the same thing )

What do I tell a costomer that bought 500.00 worth of pans 8 years ago that needs to replace one of them ???? I just know the convesation is going to be hard to explain after I have told her they ate lifetime pans

 

[ShelbyMichalek]

Are you saying we have no idea what we're talking about? Just because I haven't sold thousands of dollars worth of pans does NOT mean I'm ignorant. I've lived a life as well and I feel like I've been educated enough to have a solid opinion about this subject. Don't forget, many new consultants still have those training calls/tapes/sessions still fresh in their minds.

You are right If they are going to change the return policy then they NEED TO STICK TO THE OLD POLICY FOR THE PANS THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN SOLD. Alot of coments have been from new consultants that may not have sold thousands of dollars worth of pans yet, Us older consultants that have been selling cookware for 9 years have been trained that guests can WILL the pans to there kids never need to buy another pan again .

The tapes I have been relistening to have even taken a metel knife and scrached the grill pan and said don't worry if I scrached it you will get a new on ( with HO people in the right there listening to the same thing )

What do I tell a costomer that bought 500.00 worth of pans 8 years ago that needs to replace one of them ???? I just know the convesation is going to be hard to explain after I have told her they ate lifetime pans

 

[ChefBeckyD]

Are you saying we have no idea what we're talking about? Just because I haven't sold thousands of dollars worth of pans does NOT mean I'm ignorant. I've lived a life as well and I feel like I've been educated enough to have a solid opinion about this subject. Don't forget, many new consultants still have those training calls/tapes/sessions still fresh in their minds.

Give me a break. She in no way said you were ignorant.

You (like any new consultant) DO NOT have the experience of having sold hundreds of pieces of cookware to people based on the premise and promise that it is the "last cookware you'll ever have to buy, because if anything should happen to it, Pampered Chef will replace it for you." I have literally HUNDREDS of customers who believe they have lifetime warrantied cookware in their kitchens, and yet, they may not. THAT is my reality.

Because you do not have that experience, you cannot understand the frustration of those of us who do have that experience - so even though you have your opinion, it's not based on the same reality we are facing right now.

However, your opinion doesn't give you the right to negate the feelings and frustration that those of us who have been around selling cookware for many years are having with this change right now.