Farmers Market Grant Enables Food Stamp Acceptance | Your Opinion?

[Bill Faber]

The farmers market that I do on Saturdays is so excited because the got a grant to accept food stamps for food items. They have to use their debit card which is what we have here in FL at the info desk. The info desk gives them tokens and then they can take that to vendors and use it as cash. Because I do cash and carry and have spices she feels(woman who runs the market) that I HAVE to accept this. I told her our acceptable forms of payment and that I can not sell things cash and carry but I feel that accepting the tokens is not in my best interst. What do you all think? Am I over reacting?

 

[pampchefsarah]

Aren't there specific guidelines for how the food stamps can be used? I know they can't be used to buy alcohol, cigarettes, and some other non-essentials. Pretty sure they can't be used to purchase kitchen tools. I don't know if they can be used for sauces, rubs, or sprinkles (which wouldn't be considered 'essentials'). My other question is, if you take the tokens, who redeems them for cash, and how long does this take? It's not worth the argument, though. Personally, I'd stop selling the pantry items as cash-and-carry (though, above you say can't sell them, which is incorrect, but I don't know if you meant you 'can' or you 'don't'), which would avoid the issue all together.

 

[NooraK]

The farmer's market would reimburse you for the tokens? So technically you would be paid in cash, it's just the market's way of keeping people from coming in and just cashing in their food stamps and spending it on whatever. Since it's cash and carry, it wouldn't really make much of a difference if you end up getting cash at the end of the day, since you're not dealing with guarantees or anything like that anyway.

Personally, my biggest concern would be with the ethics of it. I am not overly familiar with food stamps and how they work, but I've always had the impression that there is a limitation to what items they can be used on. I would be curious to know if our spices and sauces are eligible to be purchased with food stamps. If they are, I'd be OK with it. If they are not, I would tell the organizers of the market that unfortunately our products are not food stamp eligible, and thus you cannot accept the tokens. In the end, it's in their best interest as well, because if anyone were to check, they might lose that privilige.

 

[NooraK]

I did a bit of searching and found this

http://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/retailers/pdfs/Retailer_Training_Guide.pdf

On page 11 it says:

Households CAN use food stamp benefits to buy:
• all food intended to be eaten at home. This includes the four staple food categories mentioned earlier as well as nonalcoholic beverages, snack foods, soft drinks, candy, and ice.
• seeds and plants intended to grow food (but not for growing flowers or feeding to birds).

Households CANNOT use food stamp benefits to buy:
• beer, wine, liquor, tobacco, or cigarettes
• foods that are hot at the point of sale
• food to be eaten in the store
• vitamins or medicines
• pet foods
• nonfood items such as tissues, soaps, cosmetics, or other household goods.
If you have questions about specific food items, contact your local FNS field office. You can find the field office by going to:
http://www.fns.usda.gov/cga/Contacts/FieldOffices/

That, and more can be found through here:

http://www.fns.usda.gov/fsp/Retailers/ELIGIBLE.HTM

There seems to be a lot of training material there, as well as a link specifically about Farmer's Markets.

 

[Bill Faber]

Well thanks for the Information Nora and Sarah. I guess my issue is ethically. But what if someone goes to a show and pulls out that card and says hey I want to buy a spice to a consultant and they then say well we do not accept the Food Stamp card. Also they make me put up a sign in my booth and does it send a message to my other customers.... I am confused by it and its not that I am trying to be hoity toity. I just do not want to do something that is going to come back and bite me later. Does that make sense?

I guess I am just being snooty. It is just becoming too much for me. I am worried about the way other customers might look at the fact that I have to place a sign in my booth that says I accept food stamps.

 

[Jolie_Paradoxe]

I wouldn't bother with it. It could get you into legal trouble, and you could potentially also get in trouble with PC.

 

[Sheila]

I'd blame it on PC & say that the company prohibits you from accepting or advertising that you take food stamps.

 

[BethCooks4U]

If the farmers market will redeem the tokens for cash at the end of the day any you only sell pantry items then I do believe that it would be a legitimate use of food stamps and wouldn't be anything unethical.

As far as other customers wanting to use food stamps at a show after seeing you do this at the fm, I would just say that the fm has a special permit to allow them to accept food stamps and we are not set up to accept them at shows even for pantry items. "The forms of payment I am able to accept are..."

 

[NooraK]

If the farmers market will redeem the tokens for cash at the end of the day any you only sell pantry items then I do believe that it would be a legitimate use of food stamps and wouldn't be anything unethical.

As far as other customers wanting to use food stamps at a show after seeing you do this at the fm, I would just say that the fm has a special permit to allow them to accept food stamps and we are not set up to accept them at shows even for pantry items. "The forms of payment I am able to accept are..."

I agree with this. If they give you a sign that says you accept the tokens, just make sure (even if you have to add it yourself) that it says for food items only.

As I mentioned, the website I linked above has a lot educational information on it. I don't necessarily see it as your responsibility to go and read all of it, but I think the market is responsible for making sure you know the information and understand it. It is in their best interest.

I would press the market organizers and say that you do not feel comfortable with the infromation youv'e been given, and until they give you a better understanding, you do not feel comfortable with the process, especially since you do sell non-food items as well. If they press the issue, but don't want to provide the education, ask them to show you something that says you HAVE to accept the tokens.

As a side note, I noticed the website said that you are not allowed to give change for the tokens. Unless you've already priced your spices so that they are even dollar amounts, that might end up being a headache.

 

[ChefBeckyD]

I would just leave the spices/rubs/sauces at home. Then, I wouldn't have to deal with the issue.

 

[smart2cook]

I agree with everyone but also leaving all the food items at home and not making them available pretty much ends the discussion. You won't have to worry about any issues and you are taking control of your business. Best of luck at this Farmer's Market-I am sure it will be a huge success for you with fewer headaches.

 

[vanscootin]

The Pantry Items should be out. I can only imagine what kind of issues could arise from accepting food stamps for PC. Perhaps a call to HO could be helpful. Or like Sheila said, blame it on PC and don't bother with it at all.

This may sound mean and I'm not trying to stir any pots but I have a real issue with this. It would be great to get PC into the hands of people who can not neccessarily afford it but on the other hand I don't think food stamps from the government should be used to puchase specialty items. I would be pretty mad to know that my tax dollars are going for someone to puchase specialty spices, sauces, rubs, and sprinkles when I myself am struggling to support my family without government assistance.

 

[Jolie_Paradoxe]

It would be great to get PC into the hands of people who can not neccessarily afford it

That's where we interject with the option of hosting a show, or better....they can join your team.

 

[ChefBeckyD]

The Pantry Items should be out. I can only imagine what kind of issues could arise from accepting food stamps for PC. Perhaps a call to HO could be helpful. Or like Sheila said, blame it on PC and don't bother with it at all.

This may sound mean and I'm not trying to stir any pots but I have a real issue with this. It would be great to get PC into the hands of people who can not neccessarily afford it but on the other hand I don't think food stamps from the government should be used to puchase specialty items. I would be pretty mad to know that my tax dollars are going for someone to puchase specialty spices, sauces, rubs, and sprinkles when I myself am struggling to support my family without government assistance.

Good point.

 

[vanscootin]

That's where we interject with the option of hosting a show, or better....they can join your team.

Jolie, I completely agree with you 100% on that. And in a perfect PC world that's how it would/should happen. But realistically it doesn't.

 

[Jolie_Paradoxe]

Jolie, I completely agree with you 100% on that. And in a perfect PC world that's how it would/should happen. But realistically it doesn't.

I just offered the option, and wasn't implying that it was the only option....nor was I disagreeing with the original poster. =) Not sure what your point is...

In the ideal PC world, everyone would say yes. People would be knocking at MY door asking ME to be their personal pc rep! lol

In reality, there will be no's...it's part of the biz. It's an option for them, we can only invite.

Even so, what are you thinking should be done in this situation?

 

[vanscootin]

I just offered the option, and wasn't implying that it was the only option....nor was I disagreeing with the original poster. =) Not sure what your point is...

In the ideal PC world, everyone would say yes. People would be knocking at MY door asking ME to be their personal pc rep! lol

In reality, there will be no's...it's part of the biz. It's an option for them, we can only invite.

Even so, what are you thinking should be done in this situation?

My point was that not everyone says yes which you basically reiderated. See my previous post for my position on what the original poster said.

 

[Jolie_Paradoxe]

My point was that not everyone says yes which you basically reiderated. See my previous post for my position on what the original poster said.

I'm such a dork! Didn't realize I had taken your line to reply! Sorry.

I wasn't quoting you because I disagreed....I was just hoping to point out that if they can't afford it, then there are options.

Hope I didn't fire you up....so was not the intention.

 

[vanscootin]

it's A OK... I'm not fired up at all.

 

[Jolie_Paradoxe]

Whew...glad to hear. Lately, people have been taking offense a bit quickly...

 

[Bill Faber]

So I appreciate the feedback it has been helpful. I am going to email her back regarding this but I have to share the email I received from her yesterday.

"hello,

you are not accepting food stamps, you are accepting tokens, the market is the one accepting the food stamps. the tokens are turned in each week and you are reimbursed the following week. tokens are just like money to you. They will also be purchased by customers that want to use their debit or CC at the market, so are you also saying you don't want anyone to use there cc at your booth?

no one at the market will be making any big money off these tokens except produce and that will be in the future when the word slowly gets out to the right people that are interested, produce is the real reason for this new system and what the people on food stamps will be coming for. I seriously doubt you will ever have anyone interested in purchasing your items since they are more speciality gourmet type products that someone on food stamps would not have enough money to purchase. They are only given a certain amount each week and I would think they would prefer several bags full of produce over 1 thing of spices, LOL! Wouldn't you think so? I am guessing many vendors will never receive any tokens for purchases. But I am going to be strict about no one turning away any customers. It would be a huge insult to me if I where on food stamps and I was told my tokens where not good enough to purchase someone's items. I will not have a market like that. I do not want anyone to be embarrassed about using their food stamp cards for purchases or to feel like there are certain vendors that look down on them. I hope you do understand how that would appear if I allowed certain vendors to choose not to accept tokens.

Anyway's like I said I doubt you will ever even have a customer that would be using tokens, and if you do you are of course more then welcome to do what you need to do. We love having you at the market and really hope you stay with us, we are just now going to be starting some exciting things and some big advertising it would be a shame for you to miss out on that!"

So I was a bit miffed by the tone of the letter. I mean I offered to not sell cash and carry spices if it was a problem and she made it like I was looking down on them. Which is far from the truth. I hate to give up the space but I am so not wanting to deal with the drama that seems to be building here. I know in time I will find another one to fill this one and I do another one on Sunday, so I can work harder to make that one better. Its just disappointing for my customers that I had if I have to leave over this.

 

[ShelbyMichalek]

So I appreciate the feedback it has been helpful. I am going to email her back regarding this but I have to share the email I received from her yesterday.

"hello,

you are not accepting food stamps, you are accepting tokens, the market is the one accepting the food stamps. the tokens are turned in each week and you are reimbursed the following week. tokens are just like money to you. They will also be purchased by customers that want to use their debit or CC at the market, so are you also saying you don't want anyone to use there cc at your booth?

no one at the market will be making any big money off these tokens except produce and that will be in the future when the word slowly gets out to the right people that are interested, produce is the real reason for this new system and what the people on food stamps will be coming for. I seriously doubt you will ever have anyone interested in purchasing your items since they are more speciality gourmet type products that someone on food stamps would not have enough money to purchase. They are only given a certain amount each week and I would think they would prefer several bags full of produce over 1 thing of spices, LOL! Wouldn't you think so? I am guessing many vendors will never receive any tokens for purchases. But I am going to be strict about no one turning away any customers. It would be a huge insult to me if I where on food stamps and I was told my tokens where not good enough to purchase someone's items. I will not have a market like that. I do not want anyone to be embarrassed about using their food stamp cards for purchases or to feel like there are certain vendors that look down on them. I hope you do understand how that would appear if I allowed certain vendors to choose not to accept tokens.

Anyway's like I said I doubt you will ever even have a customer that would be using tokens, and if you do you are of course more then welcome to do what you need to do. We love having you at the market and really hope you stay with us, we are just now going to be starting some exciting things and some big advertising it would be a shame for you to miss out on that!"

So I was a bit miffed by the tone of the letter. I mean I offered to not sell cash and carry spices if it was a problem and she made it like I was looking down on them. Which is far from the truth. I hate to give up the space but I am so not wanting to deal with the drama that seems to be building here. I know in time I will find another one to fill this one and I do another one on Sunday, so I can work harder to make that one better. Its just disappointing for my customers that I had if I have to leave over this.

That sounds a bit harsh!! She seemed like she was getting mad at you for sounding "judgemental" when she was basically doing the same thing in that one sentance...

Hmm.

 

[NooraK]

I agree that she's sounding just as judgmental in her message as she's pretty much accusing you of being. That's the problem with email though, tone of voice doesn't carry over.

I can see her point of view, I can understand that she would not want anyone to get the wrong impression. I can see her assumption that many of those on food stamps may not want to use the small amount they get on our products because of the price.

They will also be purchased by customers that want to use their debit or CC at the market, so are you also saying you don't want anyone to use there cc at your booth?

This part has me miffed though. She makes it sound as if the tokens will be used by anyone who wants to use a debit or credit card, not just those with a food stamp debit card. Would those customers then be able to use their tokens on any of your products? How would you be able to diffrentiate?

As long as I know that it is allowable by the rules of the Food Stamp program for the participants to purchase the spices and such, I'm ok with it. I can agree with the previous point about not being happy that my tax dollars are going to the purchase of what would probably qualify as "gourmet," but that's a personal opinion, and I have many other opinions about all that anyway.

For me, at this point, my initial concerns have been answered. It is allowable for me to sell my items to those customers, and I will get cash for my tokens. I would just want to know about this system for other credit card purchases.

 

[smart2cook]

Wow what a letter! I can understand being miffed but agree you are not speaking face to face. This person is failing to understand that you may be following a Company Policy-no political or personal agenda here. They assume, then insult you and then say that they hope you will continue to stay with them-interesting....don't forget that they have some exciting things coming up and wouldn't want you to miss those....just to entice you to overlook the rudeness I suspect. But that's me. I also wondered originally if they were giving tokens for all debit and credit card purchases? If so, you have no idea who has what if everyone is paying with coins that way or cash. If the answer is yes everyone is paying with tokens instead of credit cards-then no problem because it is the same as cash for you straight across the board. Otherwise I wouldn't be taking any food product to sell and that ends the discussion. Decide after that if you still want to participate with them.

 

[vanscootin]

What kind of market is this? How many vendors are there? If she suspects a lot won't be getting tokens then why make you do it? She has to know what the guidelines for food stamp purchases are and that there are certain things you can not buy with them.

This whole thing sounds a little fishy. Who's to say they turn in their food stamps for the tokens and spend their tokens on non food items. The market people would then be breaking the law by accepting food stamps and giving nonfood items in return. This makes no sense unless I seriously missed or misread something. (please forgive me if I did and sound like an idiot )

Where does she get off being that rude to you?

She is right... food stamp recipients should be more concerned with buying a whole bag of produce ... which is what they should be using their food stamps on! Which essentially should let you off the hook! But she didn't need to be so mean about our products. Sheesh!

Bill, I'm sorry, but I am so glad I'm not you right now! I'm actually angry for you.

 

[smart2cook]

Bill, Vanscootin has pointed out some very valid issues. I had to reread the letter twice because I was so shocked at the tone and what this person was writing that I overlooked the points that Vanscootin has brought to your attention. Times are hard and Fraud is rampant-whether what this Market is doing is considered legitimate? who knows but your business is your business-not the Markets. The over reaction on their part certainly makes one take notice and raise an eyebrow or two.

 

[scottcooks]

Smile, and have a sign that says Cash, Credit or Debit cards only - company policy. Let people be grumpy or call you names or whatever...cost of doing business. People on food stamps also have access to cash. They know food stamps are good at particular stores for particular items. If the market chooses to bend/break the system with tokens, explain your company software does not accept that as payment but offer potential customers to go make whatever token for cash exchange the market will allow and purchase your items with cash. It is simply out of your control.

Engage people in opportunities to try the business or get products FREE by hosting shows, not just to purchase.

When I do a weekly market, folks keep needling me to cover shipping costs. If their order is over $50 then I'm willing to split direct shipping with them, but if they just want a single spice or such - I don't pay to ship it to them. I remind them to stock up at their friend's shows, or to have a catalog show and get as many as they want for free, just for collecting 4-6 orders.

 

[Bill Faber]

The Kicker on this is last night it was advertised on the evening news as well. Come to the city of "xxxxx" Farmers Market as they are now accepting Food Stamps the only one in the area and soon will be also able to accept debit cards. I am not sure how that works.

You know I am not sure if its the food stamps that bother me or the fact that we were not asked if we wanted to participate. I mean I pay my rent. I am an individual vendor of theirs and they are demanding that I do what they are saying. There is no asking if I want to be a part of this. While I have enjoyed the experience there I am not sure that this is the best place to be at this point.

I might be thinking I am HOITY TOITY, but it burns me to think that people are using FOOD STAMPS on gourmet items instead of buying themselvs essentials. I get up everyday and work two jobs happily to make sure my family has everything it needs. And as a taxpayer I am happy to help those less fortunate, it is part of living in America, but when people use Food Stamps to buy things that are not necessary it seems like it is a slap in the face. I guess that along with the fact that It is being rammed down my throat just bugs me.

I am still undecided as of yet if I am going to bend over and take it, or if I am just going to walk away from the market. I love the people there and have begun making great connections. I do know that I was planning in a month cutting down to 2 weekends a month due to the Summer Florida Heat. Well thanks for all the great advice everyone I do appreciate it and you all have been so helpful. I know what I need to do. :chef:

 

[babywings76]

This whole situation is so bizarre. I'm sorry you are having to deal with this.It's interesting that she says that no one will be spending their tokens on your stuff anyway. There, she said it herself, so no need for you to have a sign on your booth. (Especially if you aren't doing C&C for all to see the food items) Why make everyone have a sign in their booth if there are some restrictions to the use of the tokens.I looked up the link that Noora posted and clicked on the one that discussed Farmer's Markets. Here's where what is acceptable is even more limited than that original list:"Households CAN use SNAP benefits to buy: Foods for the household to eat, such as:
-- breads and cereals;
-- fruits and vegetables;
-- meats, fish and poultry; and
-- dairy products.

Seeds and plants which produce food for the household to eat.

In some areas, restaurants can be authorized to accept SNAP benefits from qualified homeless, elderly, or disabled people in exchange for low-cost meals.Households CANNOT use SNAP benefits to buy: Beer, wine, liquor, cigarettes or tobacco;

Any nonfood items, such as: -- pet foods;
-- soaps, paper products; and
-- household supplies.

Vitamins and medicines.Food that will be eaten in the store.Hot foods."So right there it seems to me that our items wouldn't be eligible for people to use their tokens on anyway-whether people wanted to spend them there or not.I don't know what your market is like, but the ones near us have people with fresh baked goods and warm foods served with the intent of it being eaten right then and there. Are they being forced to have the sign posted, too? Since they feel that EVERYONE should have a sign to show they don't discriminate? But then they are opening up themselves to people wanting to use them only to be told they can't. That will be a far more embarrassing situation for the people. They will see a sign and say, "Oh wow, I didn't know we could use them that way. Well, okay then!" and proceed to start a transaction with the vendor.This method might come back to bite them. They should only give the vendors who meet the requirements that sign to post on their booth. Then they can differentiate to their customers if they sell some things that are eligible and some not.Are they giving people this list when they get their tokens? Uneducated consumers and vendors lead to this government subsidized program being used inappropriately.

 

[Jolie_Paradoxe]

What I don't understand is why everyone must participate. If you sold produce, then I could see why she might want to insist. Even insisting though, you as the produce vendor should be able to decide to NOT participate.

Handling these tokens, keeping track of them would be a pain...then to have to go and exchange them and hope the cash adds up would be a bigger pain.

She stated in your letter that you are turning away clients who mean to pay with debit/cc. But you can point out that you already have that ability to process cards.

I understand she may be excited about this new service and the idea that it will attract many to the market, but she should not be pressuring, insulting and expecting you to bow to her expectations.

She is placing you in a position that may break the rules, may get her in trouble AND may cause those with Food Stamps to lose their benefits. For unity and uniformity? Silly and scary.

If it's being announced in the media....eventually, someone from the government will go browse and see how it is being managed. Would you like to be in that precarious position? Do you want to have a sign, then have to explain what can and can not be purchased with Food Stamps. Keeping track of the tokens, exchanging for cash. How will you verify if the token being given to you was for Food Stamps or CC? It will have to be an honor system that would be awkward to challenge.

Good luck.