Rant English Grammar Basics: Why 2nd Grade Skills Matter

[lesliec]

I know no one is perfect, and I am a bit of a grammar nut (I used to be a teacher), but it really bothers me when people repeatedly butcher the english language. No, I'm not talking about slang, I'm not referring to the occasional missing comma, or misspelling of a tough word......

to, two, too
their, there, they're
sell, sells, sale, sales

I could go on, but those are the few that pop into my mind immediately. They are SECOND GRADE SKILLS!!!!!! Not something you might have missed on Senior Skip Day, but 2nd grade skills!!! When I taught elementary school, my kids would edit our local paper (not saying much, it was a small town). I really can't believe that people can actually graduate from highschool without having these skills. Even worse, I know people with college degrees (from well respected universities) that struggle with these issues.

I know I'm not the only one who wants to go edit blogs, facebook posts, message board threads, but I hold back. I lose all respect for the person that writes these things, and usually can't even read them to get the message of what they are talking about.

Have we as a society really accepted these things? Are we really saying it is ok to publicly post your ignorance? Ok, I'll get off my soapbox.

 

[raebates]

Re: Grammar.....No, you're not the only one. As a matter of fact, I occasionally rant about this on my own blog. Yes, anyone can make an occasional error. Routine grammar butchery is another matter altogether.

 

[LarissaRed123]

Re: Grammar.....Actually, it only bothers me when it's my hubby's FB status. That drives me crazy.:blushing:

I truly don't care about what anyone else does. There are so many more important things in my life than playing grammar police.

 

[lesliec]

Re: Grammar.....I hear what you're saying Larissa. I don't intentionally do it, it is just one of those things that gets under my skin..... like nails on the chalkboard for some. It just drives me bonkers!!!!!

 

[Kathy's_Kitchen]

Re: Grammar.....I'll join the club - it drives me nuts! I've recently caught up with a lot of people from junior high and high school through facebook. It irks me to no end to see some of their posts and messages to me that are full of grammatical errors....I've come to accept that a lot of people type their messages in "text speak" and the abbreviations do not bother me as much as they used to, but saying "I seen your status" or your for you're and the like drives me insane!

 

[ChefBeckyD]

Re: Grammar.....It's like nails on a chalkboard for me too.Even if someone might have something good to say, if they can't put a sentence together, or can't spell simple words, then I usually won't even take the time to read what they've written. It's just too painful.It's only going to get worse with a whole generation of children using texting as their guide for grammar, spelling, and sentence structure.

 

[lt1jane]

Re: Grammar.....I have edited my posts many times when I find an error. They drive me crazy, plus they make the author look unintelligent.

 

[The_Kitchen_Guy]

Re: Grammar.....My grammar died in 1971. I never knew my grampar, he died in 1921.

 

[wadesgirl]

Re: Grammar.....I have one friend on FB who text chats! Drives me so crazy I'm about ready to block her posts!

 

[BlueMoon]

Re: Grammar.....lol
me too
especially apostrophes, and quotation marks for emphasis.
Like this truck belongs to "Jimmy"==ok, what's his real name???!
Or, in a laundromat. "Don't" sit on the washerbut I must admit sometimes I enjoy them, too.

 

[laurichef]

Re: Grammar.....Did anyone catch today's email from Merrill?
"Introducing Special Addition Products"
My first thought was totes for Simple Additions. But they are totes for paperwok.
Shouldn't it be "Special Edition"?

 

[NooraK]

Re: Grammar.....I'll throw my hat in. If I was able to learn all the rules with English as a second language, you should be able to learn them, too.

 

[winklermom]

Re: Grammar.....As another former teacher and now a home educator, it bugs the stew out of me to see it, too! I'm one that will go in and edit my post, too, if I see an error. Glad to know that I'm not alone.

 

[Sheila]

Re: Grammar.....One of my FB friends IS a teacher and makes those mistakes all the time. It makes me wonder how she ever earned her degree!?!?!?

The kids broke my laptop, so I do the majority of my posts on the iPhone now. I'm having more typos where it takes the letter next to what I tried to type, but I usually correct it when I notice.

I totally agree to constat misuse or spelling errors. One of the ones that drives me batty us seeing someone on my FB page post about what she is going to do tomarrow ... she spells it that way every time she types it too.

 

[raebates]

Re: Grammar.....

My grammar died in 1971. I never knew my grampar, he died in 1921.

Now that's funny.

 

[magentablue]

Re: Grammar.....My husband is a very intelligent man with a learning disability. When he writes, it is full of errors. Even still, I understand what he writes perfectly. I don't think I'm better than he is. I am sure some of you would judge him poorly based only on his grammar or spelling, but you'd miss out on a lot of what makes him so wonderful. I used to be more of a grammar snob, but now I realize that the written word is there to help us communicate. If I can understand what the writer meant, it has fulfilled its purpose. That said, if I were reading something written by a professional writer (a novel, a textbook, etc.) that were full of errors, I wouldn't bother.

 

[raebates]

Re: Grammar.....I really don't judge the intelligence of the writer. It's just something that bugs me. I have a friend who can't stand to see the fringe on a rug all messed up. She doesn't consider the person whose rug fringe is messy to be a bad/messy/less-than person. It just bugs her. The Furry Guy is a brilliant man who can't spell to save his life. So, if he's writing a note or writing up a suggestion for work he'll have me proofread it.That said, bad grammar can make you look unprofessional to a lot of people. If grammar isn't your thing, you might ask someone to proofread your website or social media posts before you post them.

 

[chefheidi2003]

Re: Grammar.....

My husband is a very intelligent man with a learning disability. When he writes, it is full of errors. Even still, I understand what he writes perfectly. I don't think I'm better than he is. I am sure some of you would judge him poorly based only on his grammar or spelling, but you'd miss out on a lot of what makes him so wonderful.

I used to be more of a grammar snob, but now I realize that the written word is there to help us communicate. If I can understand what the writer meant, it has fulfilled its purpose. That said, if I were reading something written by a professional writer (a novel, a textbook, etc.) that were full of errors, I wouldn't bother.

I agree with you..but it does annoy me when it is someone who I know does not have a learning disability at all..and they are just being lazy..ie..my nephew..and people who I spent 12 years of my life with in school.

That being said..the 2 that stick out to me the most are

Loose instead of Lose
And
Than instead of Then

 

[lesliec]

Re: Grammar.....My son's teacher emailed me the other day and used the wrong "their" (like my quotations?). He is in Kindergarten, and it isn't a skill they will be learning, but it only reinforced that we are doing the right thing by pulling him out to homeschool.

 

[Jolie_Paradoxe]

Re: Grammar.....Yikes. I actually do know the proper grammar rules and edit when it's something important. However for blogs and places like this, I'm a lot more lax. Many times I'm posting while on a call or doing something else. I post in a hurry and KNOW that I quite often misspell or use the wrong tense. If I catch it, I try and edit it. I use lots of exclamation points and smiley's (it's hard not to because much of my humor is dry and I don't want to see future posts of people thinking I'm being mean, etc). I also use lots of .....

Hope I'm not driving you guys batty! I already spend too much time playing on here and other sites, and probably won't alter my editing and posting style much. So, I apologize in advance because there will be errors a-coming!

 

[The_Kitchen_Guy]

Re: Grammar.....

I agree with you..but it does annoy me when it is someone who I know does not have a learning disability at all..and they are just being lazy..ie..my nephew..and people who I spent 12 years of my life with in school.

That being said..the 2 that stick out to me the most are

Loose instead of Lose
And
Than instead of Then

Last Spring, Anne started a thread about people who mispronounce words, which evolved into a pretty funny discussion about regionalisms and the like. Incorrect word usage (their, there, they're, etc.) was a pretty big irritant in that thread, too.

If you need some giggles, check it out: Words people mispronounce that drive you nuts...

Which reminds me, not grammar but punctuation, one of my pet peeves is the misuse of something called an "ellipsis."

An ellipsis is three periods in a row - not four, not two, not twelve - that indicates the speaker is dropping off in mid-sentence. Anne correctly used the ellipsis in the title of her thread, three dots.

Three dots...

 

[Jolie_Paradoxe]

Re: Grammar.....

Last Spring, Anne started a thread about people who mispronounce words, which evolved into a pretty funny discussion about regionalisms and the like. Incorrect word usage (their, there, they're, etc.) was a pretty big irritant in that thread, too.

If you need some giggles, check it out: Words people mispronounce that drive you nuts...

Which reminds me, not grammar but punctuation, one of my pet peeves is the misuse of something called an "ellipsis."

An ellipsis is three periods in a row - not four, not two, not twelve - that indicates the speaker is dropping off in mid-sentence. Anne correctly used the ellipsis in the title of her thread, three dots.

Three dots...

Muah ha ha...sorry KG. I am guilty. I always use 4 or more just because it's more appealing to me visually, even though I know better. Promise to adapt that bad habit. Just for you.

 

[Sheila]

Re: Grammar.....You don't have to worry about me Laurie!!! I like lots of exclamation points and extras too!

I'm not a fan of Ebonics, but it really gets under my skin to hear a white person speak Ebonics and/or seeing them using it on their FB wall. I've actually considered hiding my cousin on FB so I don't have to see her posts because she does it 99% of the time.

 

[Jolie_Paradoxe]

Re: Grammar.....LOL Sheila. I appreciate it! I have quite a few pet peeves too, and I either refuse to open the post if I see their name or I just skip it knowing it's going to irk me. ha ha

We all have them, but for the most part I try and overlook it and see if there's content or substance beforehand.

 

[pampered1224]

Re: Grammar.....Shelia - should that be "and/or see them..."? not "and/or seeing..."?
I have to ask because I do have major issues with grammar so I thought I would ask? Not a knock mind you, but a legitimate question because I really do not know which is right? Yours sounds off for some reason when I say it so... Thanks in advance!

 

[Sheila]

Re: Grammar.....Yes! Good Catch.

 

[ShellBeach]

Re: Grammar.....Grammar mistakes and misspellings don't bother me on chat boards or informal emails - stuff like that.


It drives me absolutely bonkers to see it in store ads, though. Copywriters and proofreaders are getting PAID for that. SHeesh. Do your job!


My #1 peeve is permanent signs that have errors:
http://pages.prodigy.net/pizzabagel/MisspelledSigns_001.htm

 

[pampered1224]

Re: Grammar.....Thank you! Like I said, I was just not sure.

 

[Sheila]

Re: Grammar.....In my defense, it was 2AM here in Japan when I posted that ... (4AM now & I'm finally headed to bed!)

 

[Jolie_Paradoxe]

Re: Grammar.....I agree Shellbeach. I expect professional and proper when it's published or for ads, lierature, etc. I actually did copy and was responsible for editing press releases. Funny, isn't it? When I see errors for company campaigns or in books (because it happens), I'm thrown off or turned off.

For blogs and amongst friends, I'm not as particular. I did it so much that I learned to let the editor go when at home. I like the freedom when the setting like this is informal and friendly.

Sheila, mistakes happen and your pattern is most often eloquent and substantial in content.

 

[raebates]

Re: Grammar.....KG, I was always taught that the ellipsis should have a space between each period. Though, things might have changed . . . I'm old.

 

[magentablue]

Re: Grammar.....Truthfully, the proper use is with the spaces, and is used in a quote. "I am quoting something . . . I have cut out some words but, the original meaning is conveyed here." It is sometimes used informally to indicate a trailing off of thoughts, but this is not very proper. It is also informally used to indicate a pause in speech, but again, it is not very proper.I do both all the time when I write online and I don't use the spaces. The whole of the grammar discussion is pretty shaky. There are few people that posses a perfect mastery of grammar usage. We can all throw stones, or we can work to educate one another and ourselves. I know I am not perfect and am still learning! Worried about text speak? Don't be. I'm 32. We were using it before we had computers and cellphones, although it is used more commonly now. I submit my old yearbooks as proof! I still take notes in text speak. However, I have not seen anyone except the very young use it in the work place, and those who use it in the workplace do not use it for long.

 

[Sheila]

Re: Grammar.....Awe, thanks Laurie!

 

[Jolie_Paradoxe]

Re: Grammar.....Ok magenta, I have to ask. Was it intentional? Because I'm grinning and laughing over here if it was.

Great post, btw!

 

[The_Kitchen_Guy]

Re: Grammar.....

KG, I was always taught that the ellipsis should have a space between each period. Though, things might have changed . . . I'm old.

Truthfully. the proper use is with the spaces, and is used in a quote.

"I am quoting something . . . I have cut out some words but, the original meaning is conveyed here."

It is sometimes used informally to indicate a trailing off of thoughts, but this is not very proper.

It is also informally used to indicate a pause in speech, but again, it is not very proper.

<snip for brevity>

For typewriting, you may both be correct. Your dot-space-dot-space-dot sounds, to me anyway, suspiciously like a typewriter standard like the APA standard. (It seems like ithe APA standard hasn't been updated since typewriters were electrified, either.)

I come from a typesetting and page layout background, where the ellipsis is a glyph. There's no spaces in the ellipsis in any of the fonts that I've used over the years. In Windows, you can insert the ellipsis glyph into your text by holding down the [alt] key and pressing 0133. Try it…and with most fonts, you'll get the ellipsis glyph. (If you've read this far, you might be interested to know that the ellipsis is usually the same length as the em dash and em space.)

Spaces, or no spaces, proper usage is still three dots.

Sidebar - the APA says that at the end of a sentence, you press the space bar twice after each period. Typesetters hate all that extra space so they only put one space after a period and most serious page layout software automagically deletes the extraneous spaces.

 

[Sheila]

Re: Grammar.....I still can't do the 1 space after a sentence. It's two in my brain. The iPhone ads a period & one space, I don't correct it. But on a real keyboard, I use two spaces.

 

[raebates]

Re: Grammar.....The standard has actually changed for computer use because most word processing software creates a larger space after a period, making the use of an additional space unnecessary. Interesting bit about the glyph, though outing yourself as a typesetter is really telling your age.

 

[ChefBeckyD]

Re: Grammar.....I know that the ellipsis is three dots...

However........I just love to use the dots. Maybe when I use more than three, it should not be considered an ellipsis,........but just a visual representation of the pause in my thought process.

 

[The_Kitchen_Guy]

Re: Grammar.....

The standard has actually changed for computer use because most word processing software creates a larger space after a period, making the use of an additional space unnecessary. Interesting bit about the glyph, though outing yourself as a typesetter is really telling your age.

Probably…but I know I used to teach some basic typesetting rules when I taught desktop publishing. The pages may all be laid out on screen these days, and printing technology has also changed greatly, but it's still ink on paper. (Or toner on paper. Okay, it's black on white. Or color on white.)

 

[pampered1224]

Re: Grammar.....This is interesting! I did not know there even was a name for the ... but I did know there used to be a specific pattern needed. And Sheila - 2 a.m.? You are most forgiven as I can't do it in the middle of the afternoon after several coffees and Mt. Dews! When I started programming reports, way back in the 1980s, the ... series was automatically spaced with a 1.25 space. Now I believe that is 1 space only. And Periods automatically in a word processing program, was 1.75. It was actually done with the period so as to help "justify" the writing in a formal manner. Left and Right justification was the norm for most business documents as well as letters and to make them look professional. Now if you get a letter from your bank, the right hand margin is where ever it ends. The paragraphs no longer have that tailored, elegant look. Funny how even computer generated letter writing has gone to the dogs as well as actually hand writing anything has!

 

[lesliec]

Re: Grammar.....

Truthfully, the proper use is with the spaces, and is used in a quote.

"I am quoting something . . . I have cut out some words but, the original meaning is conveyed here."

It is sometimes used informally to indicate a trailing off of thoughts, but this is not very proper.

It is also informally used to indicate a pause in speech, but again, it is not very proper.

I do both all the time when I write online and I don't use the spaces.

The whole of the grammar discussion is pretty shaky. There are few people that posses a perfect mastery of grammar usage. We can all throw stones, or we can work to educate one another and ourselves. I know I am not perfect and am still learning!

Worried about text speak? Don't be. I'm 32. We were using it before we had computers and cellphones, although it is used more commonly now. I submit my old yearbooks as proof! I still take notes in text speak. However, I have not seen anyone except the very young use it in the work place, and those who use it in the workplace do not use it for long.

This kind of stuff doesn't really bother me. Many of these are accepted as the norm, especially in informal writing.

I am definitely guilty of butchering the elipsis. I am also guilty of not using capital letters at the beginning of sentences when typing informal emails or posts on boards or FB, although I do know how to properly use them.

I try not to judeg typographical errors for what they are, especially when people are in a rush. I also know that people often get distracted while typing and some things just don't end up right on the screen, but blatent misuse of the language or lack of knowledge of the language completly devalues it, IMHO.

We have this idea of "no child left behind", and what it equates to is that anyone, regardless of the knowledge they have learned and are able to demonstrate, is able to recieve a degree, which totally degrades the degrees of those deserving of them... I guess I am getting a little political now.

When I was teaching, I had an administrator above me. She was dumb as dirt. She did eventually get fired because she had no business being in the position she was in, but it drives me batty when I see people who have all sorts of degrees and qualifications, but don't have the mental capacity to do the job. It is so commonplace these days.

DH doesn't have a degree, never went to a day of college, but is one of the most intelligent people I know. He is an outdoors kind of guy and has the mind of an engineer. He is a landscaper and small construction guy, just not a college person. He is great with calculating and figuring and can make plans for amazing things!!!! I love having him around, especially since we own a fixer-upper home!!!

 

[BlueMoon]

Re: Grammar.....As previously noted, l enjoy grammar and discussions of spacing. Probably too much. Interestingly, Word allows to set the spell check for one or two spaces after the period, and APA seems to waffle on it. ("Wait! You're both right!")

At the same time, I try to remember that grammar is a convention, speakers/writers in a language conform to it, but it's not a law like gravity or the sun rising. We certainly speak and write in ways our recent ancestors would have found ignorant or incomprehensible. I'mnot talking about "text speak" here, just that grammar evolves as our society does. So when I read Magenta's comments about her beloved not always writing "correctly," I am reminded that what I think of as an error may intentional, and--as she points out, if the reader understands, that's the point of communication, isn't it?

BUT I'm glad we have this little space where we can vent and giggle a little. I love talking about this kind of stuff (spelling, grammar, enunciation, pronunciation) and don't often because I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings and my sweetheart thinks it's weird to even notice.

 

[raebates]

Re: Grammar.....

DH doesn't have a degree, never went to a day of college, but is one of the most intelligent people I know. He is an outdoors kind of guy and has the mind of an engineer. He is a landscaper and small construction guy, just not a college person. He is great with calculating and figuring and can make plans for amazing things!!!! I love having him around, especially since we own a fixer-upper home!!!

This is sooooo The Furry Guy. Though, professionally he's a machinist in a factory instead of a landscaper and construction guy. I'd stack his intelligence up against anyone else, especially when it comes to figuring out how to get something mechanical done. I just wouldn't let him write the instructions for how to do it without a good proofreader.

 

[Kathy's_Kitchen]

Re: Grammar.....

I know that the ellipsis is three dots...

However........I just love to use the dots. Maybe when I use more than three, it should not be considered an ellipsis,........but just a visual representation of the pause in my thought process.

"Like" (probably shouldn't have used quotes there)

I love to use the dots for pauses as well.....maybe we could come up with a new grammatical term for it.......

 

[Chef Kearns]

Re: Grammar.....This one drives me crazy when I read it, peaked for piqued.

 

[ShellBeach]

Re: Grammar.....or peeked! heh
but again, it wouldn't bother me much unless I read it somewhere that a person got paid to proofread/edit the thing, and it went to press.

 

[Intrepid_Chef]

Re: Grammar.....The thing that annoys me (as a professional writer and editor) is when people use a plural when it's not a plural.

As in "the couple have two children" or "the company laid off 20 of their workers"

Um, it's ONE company, ONE couple. So it's "the couple HAS two children" and "the company laid of 20 of its employees."

 

[Jolie_Paradoxe]

Re: Grammar.....Ok, I have to point out the irony. Please take it lightheartedly as it is intended. Many of the posters who have been listing their pet peeves have a couple of improper word choices, spelling typos and/or grammatical errors too! lol

It's cool because it just goes to show that it happens to everyone. Of course, now everyone will reread their post and edit to correct. I don't want to quote or point out specifics, so my post will just look silly. But it's humorous and I just had to mention it.

 

[The_Kitchen_Guy]

Re: Grammar.....

The thing that annoys me (as a professional writer and editor) is when people use a plural when it's not a plural.

As in "the couple have two children" or "the company laid off 20 of their workers"

Um, it's ONE company, ONE couple. So it's "the couple HAS two children" and "the company laid of 20 of its employees."

The data are in - you are correct.

The collective sports team names are also a bugaboo - Bears, Packers, Lions, etc. are singular. I never know quite how to address individual players. Brett Favre is a member of the Vikings, but he is not a Viking, Aaron Rodgers is a member of the Packers, but he is not a Packer. Jay Cutler is the quarterback for the Bears, but I looked at photo of him and he certainly is not a Bear.

 

[vgmontes]

Re: Grammar.....When it comes to an FB status, I believe you're just going to have to deal with it. Writing to over two or too is shorter. Although not by much, the word is just shorter. People are just going to take the shortcuts, especially when they are typing the status from their phone. Other words will be typed in whichever way is quickest. There is easier and faster to type over "their" or "they're", especially on a phone. It's just a few letters, characters, and punctuation marks, but people don't like to take up time. Does 30 minutes or less cooking ring a bell? Say hello to the modern world where chillaxin is a word.