Help!! Major Concern About a New Recruit (Lengthy Message Follows)

[peichef]

So my neighbour may FINALLY be ready to sign in 2 days!!(She's been saying it since November.)
I was really excited, but here's the rub....
She's currently doing a catalog show. Tonight I received a phone call - anonymously -- the woman who called blocked caller ID & didn't identify herself.
The caller tells me "be careful of credit cards with ..... (host's name)." I didn't understand what she was trying to tell me -- she was very cryptic in her message. After I asked several questions, here's what I got...
My neighbour (who has another Direct Selling business) did a show for this woman or someone she knows. Apparently, my neighbour (the REP) used the customers' credit cards (ie: more than 1 customer) for purposes other than their show orders (FRAUD).
SO.... what do I do??
It's possible that the caller is just one of my neighbour's disgruntled, estranged relatives. On the other hand, I do know that my neighbour has used relative's CCs, unbeknownst to them (though she always says, "oh I 'll pay it off before they even get the statement).
I have left a message for the neighbour ("I received an unusual call, regarding your catalog show. Please call me...") so I can discuss this all with her.HELP!!

 

[Gina M]

Man that's a tough one - if she's using her relative's cards without their permission - that is a crime! I personally would have a tough time having this person being a consultant and having access to other's personal information. Just my opinion - don't know what to tell you though - good luck!

 

[peichef]

that's my thought, too. But what if it's just someone trying to make trouble??

 

[JAE]

If I were you, I'd tell the neighbor about the call. Then I'd let it go. It's not your problem. Just don't ever give her your cc info, and make sure you are your own friend's and family's consultant. Meaning, don't refer her to anyone you know personally.

 

[ChefBeckyD]

So my neighbour may FINALLY be ready to sign in 2 days!!(She's been saying it since November.)
I was really excited, but here's the rub....
She's currently doing a catalog show. Tonight I received a phone call - anonymously -- the woman who called blocked caller ID & didn't identify herself.
The caller tells me "be careful of credit cards with ..... (host's name)." I didn't understand what she was trying to tell me -- she was very cryptic in her message. After I asked several questions, here's what I got...
My neighbour (who has another Direct Selling business) did a show for this woman or someone she knows. Apparently, my neighbour (the REP) usd the customers' credit cards (ie: more than 1 customer) for purposes other than their show orders (FRAUD).
SO.... what do I do??
It's possible that the caller is just one of my neighbour's disgruntled, estranged relatives. On the other hand, I do know tnat my neighbour has used relative's CCs, nbeknownst to them (though she always says, "oh I 'll pay it off before they even get the statement).
I have left a message for the neighbour ("I received an unuaul call, regarding your catalog show. Please call me...") so I can discuss this all with her.

HELP!!

Doesn't that raise big red flags all over the place for you???

 

[peichef]

Doesn't that raise big red flags all over the place for you???

It has -- big time. I always just figured she & her mom had an arrangement whereby she'd charge stuff & repay it. Now I am not sure.

There is more back story here - but honestly, it would turn into a book (I'd say "novel" but it's all true) that would remind you of Desperate Housewives.

I do have concerns about signing her -- but if don't, someone will & at least I know to keep an eye on her.

 

[katie0128]

It has -- big time. I always just figured she & her mom had an arrangement whereby she'd charge stuff & repay it. Now I am not sure.

There is more back story here - but honestly, it would turn into a book (I'd say "novel" but it's all true) that would remind you of Desperate Housewives.

I do have concerns about signing her -- but if don't, someone will & at least I know to keep an eye on her.

But you are NOT a BABYSITTER, which is what you would be doing. I'd give her a heads up about the call, but I WOULD NOT sign her under any circumstances. You are just asking for a huge headache.

And what if she does "borrow" a customer's credit card information at some point? Regardless of what the outcome is, how guilty would you feel about her being your consultant that YOU signed KNOWING this was a possible issue???

Personally, I think you should be debating about whether to call the police if you believe she has stolen from others already, not debating on whether to sign her or not.

 

[pamperedharriet]

I would be very concerned about her being part of my team or anyone else's for that matter unless I knew for sure it wouldn't be a problem down the road. It really could be a problem if she uses other people's credit cards for her own use.

Confront her, close her catalog show and hopefully the subject will never come up again.

 

[cincychef]

I was just thinking, how did this woman know that you were her PC rep if she was a customer for another party. I know the using of the cc would have me very worried, but I would wonder how the woman knew to call you? That would make me really think before I believe it. Also if she is already a rep for another company can you check with them about any cc problems? I don't know if that is possible just a thought. I can't imagine any company keeping a consultant who stole in their name. Again just would make me wonder about the person calling.

 

[crystalscookingnow]

(though she always says, "oh I 'll pay it off before they even get the statement).

I want to know how she's paying the bill before they get their statement. Does she have access to the account online? If so, did the cardholder give her that info?

 

[janetupnorth]

1. MAJOR red flags.2. I would not allow her to use ANY cards but her own on any of your shows. By accepting her use of other cards knowingly you could be in trouble legally. I'd stay far away from that and also consider reporting that.3. Your job as a recruiter is not to babysit all your recruits every aspect of their lives. If they tell you they are doing something wrong you have a duty to correct them verbally or report them and not turn a blind eye, but you cannot be their conscience or the law for them. HO would have to deal with this person if they are reported using cards fraudulently for PC.4. I'd be careful...

 

[janetupnorth]

Oh, and on that phone call/complaint...if that person did fraudulently use cards for other purposes, the hurt parties need to report that and let the law deal with it...not make anonymous phone calls "warning" everyone. The law can sort out the details, the rest is just heresay and potentially damaging to her without the whole set of facts being brought out.

 

[stacywhitlow]

Here is my thought...it is not up to you to "decide" who signs. She can go right to the PC website & sign. If you don't want her under you directly, send her there to sign. If she has used others cc, it is their responsibility to handle it. I'm sure she would have been caught (especially if you got a call about it) and penalized accordingly. I doubt another DS company would keep her around if that was the case. As far as using family members cards, maybe they have an agreement (or she used their ssn to obtain credit) How else could she pay it off before getting a statement? Again, not your responsibility. If you suspect any fraud, don't accept any cc from her other than her own personal card. Call all customers to confirm payment before submitting the catalog show.

 

[peichef]

I was just thinking, how did this woman know that you were her PC rep if she was a customer for another party. I know the using of the cc would have me very worried, but I would wonder how the woman knew to call you? That would make me really think before I believe it. Also if she is already a rep for another company can you check with them about any cc problems? I don't know if that is possible just a thought. I can't imagine any company keeping a consultant who stole in their name. Again just would make me wonder about the person calling.

I assume she / or a friend was invited to participate in the catty show. She would have taken my contact info from my PWS.

 

[peichef]

Here is my thought...it is not up to you to "decide" who signs. She can go right to the PC website & sign. If you don't want her under you directly, send her there to sign. If she has used others cc, it is their responsibility to handle it. I'm sure she would have been caught (especially if you got a call about it) and penalized accordingly. I doubt another DS company would keep her around if that was the case. As far as using family members cards, maybe they have an agreement (or she used their ssn to obtain credit) How else could she pay it off before getting a statement? Again, not your responsibility. If you suspect any fraud, don't accept any cc from her other than her own personal card. Call all customers to confirm payment before submitting the catalog show.

Thanks. That is what I had planned -- and assured the customer. My neighbour doesn't have a credit card, so I won't be taking any orders on CC from her. As for any other orders that come in, I always verify online orders before I put it into Pampered Partner. I'll just be EXTRA careful this time.

My thinking is that if indeed she did use other people's credit cards fraudulently, then those parties would have most likely already contacted the police &/or the DS complany she worked for.
I did think about calling her upline for the other DS company, but I think I owe my neighbour the courtesy of speaking with her first, before spreading what might, ultimately, just be a rumour.

I do think this woman has some enemies, & from what she has told me there are many mentally unstable people (who have been diagnosed as such) around her. That said, for all I know, she could be as well.

 

[pamperedlinda]

I think that you should tell her about the phone call and see what she has tp say.

Right now you only have one person's story. This could be totally untrue and it isn't fair to your prospective new recruit. If she does have this problem, then it is possible that PC could help her earn the money she needs so that she doesn't ever do this again.

 

[vwpamperedchef]

Assuming you signed her and she used other people's credit cards....do you think you could rest easy? I know I Would feel guilty knowing I signed someone that already had the stigma attached to her.

In this day and age, credit card fraud could happen at any given time. My old health insurance, had a laptop stolen with ALL my info on it. And many others too. Its such a pain when you are the victim of the fraud because YOU have to do all the work to correct it and prevent it from happening again.

I would not sign your neighbor.

 

[wadesgirl]

This story hits home a little too personally. I have a person in my life who is a fraud. She's been caught many times, been to jail over bad checks, etc. Each time, she up and moves to a new neighborhood and will play the "poor me" card until she gets her grip on someone else again. She's stolen people's money, cars, etc. She also charged up credit cards in her third husband's name after their divorce years ago. You can give her the benefit of the doubt but watch out and ask her about it, but there may be horns holding up her halo. You just never know with people these days.

Have you talked to your director about this? About your HO sales director? Or what ever they are called. They could possibly give you some more insight.

 

[jenniferp417]

Wow. I'm shocked at how many of you wouldn't sign her, based on an anonymous "poison pen" call.Even if she HAS used family cards - it sounds like it could very well be a completely different sort of issue - we have no way of knowing if it's fraud.If I sign someone - anyone - and they commit fraud - that's on their heads, not mine.I'd tell her about the call - but I would not assume she's a criminal.

 

[wadesgirl]

Wow. I'm shocked at how many of you wouldn't sign her, based on an anonymous "poison pen" call.

Even if she HAS used family cards - it sounds like it could very well be a completely different sort of issue - we have no way of knowing if it's fraud.

If I sign someone - anyone - and they commit fraud - that's on their heads, not mine.

I'd tell her about the call - but I would not assume she's a criminal.

I never said she shouldn't sign her, I told her to call and find out but be aware.

She may not be liable for fraud if this consultants is "guilty" and does the same thing with PC but there is a thing called guilty by association. She may loose her own customers if they find out illegal activities have occured with someone in her downline. People are too leary about things that involve their credit. My dad had to email me and ask me if they PC survey they sent out last month was a phishing type thing.

 

[vwpamperedchef]

Wow. I'm shocked at how many of you wouldn't sign her, based on an anonymous "poison pen" call.

Even if she HAS used family cards - it sounds like it could very well be a completely different sort of issue - we have no way of knowing if it's fraud.

If I sign someone - anyone - and they commit fraud - that's on their heads, not mine.

I'd tell her about the call - but I would not assume she's a criminal.

Assuming I gathered the facts about this neighbor, and if it WAS true, I certainly WOULD NOT SIGN HER! I could not live with myself if I signed her and then she took customers credit card numbers.

Apparently some of it IS true, because in the inital post it said something like she's admitted to using her family's credit card.

So yes, maybe you are shocked, but I WOULD NOT SIGN HER.

Right or wrong, I don't think there is a definate answer, but I know I could not knowingly sign her if I had the facts.

 

[RebelChef]

Unfortunately, the law sometimes won't do much about it. My neighbor had two employees who almost bankrupted him because of unauthorized use of his credit cards that were supposed to be for business only. Forging checks, too. One of the checks was his SS check, which is a federal offense. Nothing has been done yet. They managed to intercept his mail and hide their fraud long enough that it got his electricity shut off before he found out. This man is 80 years old. How people can do that is beyond me.

It's not your responsibility to watchdog her business dealings and it may or may not be a prank or sour grapes call. If she wants to sign under you, let her. Just cover your own six on your shows. Accept only her card for her order total and verify the other card payments. If she signs and does something unethical, someone will either turn her in to the law or PC will handle it accordingly, I'm sure.

 

[fruit76loop]

Wow. I'm shocked at how many of you wouldn't sign her, based on an anonymous "poison pen" call.

Even if she HAS used family cards - it sounds like it could very well be a completely different sort of issue - we have no way of knowing if it's fraud.

If I sign someone - anyone - and they commit fraud - that's on their heads, not mine.

I'd tell her about the call - but I would not assume she's a criminal.

I was thinking the same thing as I read through these posts. "Hear say" is not a reason to not allow someone to sign with PC, especially from someone who didn't want to identify themselves. This annonymous (sp?) person might have had a personnal issue with your neighbor.

As far as using a family member's credit card...I have done this in the past when I did not have a card of my own, but of course they knew about it. I know fraud is a definate issue, but before passing judgement I would get more facts.

It is not our job to "police" our recruits or future recruits. If this becomes an issue then HO will deal with it.

IMHO

 

[Geoo]

Well, "Hear say" except when she said

On the other hand, I do know that my neighbour has used relative's CCs, unbeknownst to them (though she always says, "oh I 'll pay it off before they even get the statement).

that was personal knowledge. But I agree that more needs to be known. I dont know that I wouldnt sign her, but I wouldnt be taking cards from her when she says the above.

Thats a tough one..

Jim

 

[jenniferp417]

I assume she's not going to say "haha I'm going to steal from my customers." So there's no possible way for any of us to get the "truth" from her on whether or not she'd ever steal from her customers.The family issue is troubling - but I'd have to assume that at some point permission was given, and she's continued to take advantage of the situation.Taking advantage of family and stealing from strangers are often two very different issues. It IS troubling. But if her family has allowed it to continue with their knowledge, that implies consent.If, after telling her about the call, her response DOES indicate real cause for concern, that's one thing. But since she's likely to 1) be outraged and 2) deny, what are you going to do?I just know that if I were in her shoes, and someone said "I won't sign you because some random anonymous person said you were a thief," I'd be pixxed beyond measure. I'd contact HO, I'd raise heck.I'm not law enforcement, judge or jury. Without compelling reason NOT to, I'd sign her. If there were any indications of issues after that, I'd contact HO in writing with details of all that's happened... but not without cause.

 

[dianevill]

So my neighbour may FINALLY be ready to sign in 2 days!!(She's been saying it since November.)
I was really excited, but here's the rub....
She's currently doing a catalog show. Tonight I received a phone call - anonymously -- the woman who called blocked caller ID & didn't identify herself.
The caller tells me "be careful of credit cards with ..... (host's name)." I didn't understand what she was trying to tell me -- she was very cryptic in her message. After I asked several questions, here's what I got...
My neighbour (who has another Direct Selling business) did a show for this woman or someone she knows. Apparently, my neighbour (the REP) used the customers' credit cards (ie: more than 1 customer) for purposes other than their show orders (FRAUD).
SO.... what do I do??
It's possible that the caller is just one of my neighbour's disgruntled, estranged relatives. On the other hand, I do know that my neighbour has used relative's CCs, unbeknownst to them (though she always says, "oh I 'll pay it off before they even get the statement).
I have left a message for the neighbour ("I received an unusual call, regarding your catalog show. Please call me...") so I can discuss this all with her.

HELP!!

Have you heard back from your neighbor yet? I guess for me, I'd take what the anonymous caller said with a grain of salt; HOWEVER, your bolded part above has me confused. How do YOU know this? (I'm not trying to sound accusing, I genuinely want to know how you found out.) Did she come out and tell you this? If her charges are "unbeknownst" to the relative, then there obviously isn't consent. And even if she paid it before the statement came, wouldn't the charge still be on the statement? I don't get it...

 

[pamperedposey]

I was thinking the same thing as I read through these posts. "Hear say" is not a reason to not allow someone to sign with PC, especially from someone who didn't want to identify themselves. This annonymous (sp?) person might have had a personnal issue with your neighbor.

As far as using a family member's credit card...I have done this in the past when I did not have a card of my own, but of course they knew about it. I know fraud is a definate issue, but before passing judgement I would get more facts.

It is not our job to "police" our recruits or future recruits. If this becomes an issue then HO will deal with it.

IMHO

I agree with this completely. Until you witness something fraudulent yourself you can't just assume she is a criminal. You can't stop her from signing. If she does something wrong and you know about it then you bring it to her attention and let her know you will be contacting PC (at the very least) and letting them do what needs to be done to correct it.

 

[pampchefrhondab]

I don't know what to tell you to do, but I love CC because it prepares me for all kinds of things in this business! I don't have to work this business for 10 years before I hear it all! There are still so many surprises though!

 

[katie0128]

Until you witness something fraudulent yourself you can't just assume she is a criminal. You can't stop her from signing.

You are right... unless something is personally witnessed, it can't be assumed that she is a criminal and you can't keep her from signing. However, personally, I would be reluctant to sign her myself. My opinion is based on the statement ...

On the other hand, I do know that my neighbour has used relative's CCs, unbeknownst to them (though she always says, "oh I 'll pay it off before they even get the statement).

and the fact that peichef said there was more to the story.

While I do agree that using a relative's card without authorization and using a customer's card are two different things, I personally would not want to do business with someone that I truly believe is stealing... regardless of who it is from.

I can understand why this potential recruit would get upset with me for my decision and even call HO to complain... and that is her right. And I do understand that we (as recruiters) aren't to run background checks on potential recruits. But at the same time, I could not in good faith sign someone that I had reason to believe would not be completely honest in their financial transacations. Obviously some people would sign her... and that is fine. That is your decision. But since HO doesn't require us to sign anyone who is interested, I would make the decision to not sign her.

 

[pamperedposey]

But all she has to have is your consultant number, which can be found easily if she's hosting a show and then she can sign up on her own. You could be reluctant to sign her, but really she could sign herself. Not trying to start anything...I just think that we look at it as us signing them up when really they can sign themselves without too much, if any, help.