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Stoneware in the dishwasher OH MY!

Discussion in 'Products and Tips' started by tabnat80, Dec 2, 2008.

  1. tabnat80

    tabnat80 Advanced Member Gold Member

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    I went over to my friends house for lunch today and when I put my plate in the dishwasher, there was her small bar pan. I screamed. She asked me why she shouldn't put it in there and quite frankly, I didn't know what to tell her. I just never have done that. She said she does it all the time.
     
    Dec 2, 2008
    #1
  2. jrstephens

    jrstephens Legend Member

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    I have a customer that does it all the time. She says when she taste soap, she will buy a new one, ha!

    She is not suppose to do it b/c of the soap in the dishwasher. There may be other reasons but that is the only one I know.
     
    Dec 2, 2008
    #2
  3. supposedly, the stone can absorb(?) the soap and make your food taste off. personally, my hubby hand washed my 1st stones with soap and water once and it didn't affect them. however, I wouldn't encorage it. although, if she is willing to buy a new one when that one starts messing with food flavors, i guess that just means repeat business in the future!
     
  4. BethCooks4U

    BethCooks4U Legend Member Gold Member

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    Putting a stone in the dishwasher is a bad idea because:

    1. it voids the warranty
    2. it could cause thermal shock and later could break while in use
    3. it gets rid of the seasoning
    4. the soap taste thing
     
    Dec 2, 2008
    #4
  5. DebbieJ

    DebbieJ Legend Member

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    not to mention the insane water pressure
     
    Dec 2, 2008
    #5
  6. pampermejolene

    pampermejolene Advanced Member Gold Member

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    I just don't get it, my stones, even before they were seasoned, are some of the easiest things to clean! I don't understand people who think they have to put everything in the dishwasher!
     
  7. Christ Follower

    Christ Follower Legend Member Gold Member

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    Because they are lazy. (My mother is one of those people...she admits it herself). Just as long as they know not to come crying to you when the item breaks or doesn't work properly anymore.
     
  8. Teresa Lynn

    Teresa Lynn Legacy Member Gold Member

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    its not always because people are lazy (some of us are OCD & don't like things out looking messy)
    there are days I am so busy, I don't have the extra time to wash, dry and put it away.
    I refuse to have a dish drainer for them to drip dry and put away later
    my DW sometimes runs up to 3-4 times a day (always full)
     
    Dec 6, 2008
    #8
  9. beepampered

    beepampered Veteran Member

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    A customer has a broken stone and says she does run it in the dishwasher. Do I do a product adjustment if they insist or tell them tough luck? Honestly, I don't understand how this could make it break more....
     
    Aug 19, 2009
    #9
  10. cwinter474

    cwinter474 Veteran Member Gold Member

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    I have customers who put them into the dishwasher all the time, BUT they do NOT add soap. I have strongly recommended that they don't do this. But as far as I know they still do.
     
    Aug 19, 2009
    #10
  11. esavvymom

    esavvymom Legend Member Staff Member

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    I wouldn't do the adjustment...I would just politely explain that it voids the warranty because it is not supposed to be used that way. It's not YOUR fault, nor PC's responsibility to make sure they actually READ. Best I would offer is to let her know about September's specials, if she seems upset or turned off, MAYBE offer an extra 10% off (from your commission).

    Just doesn't seem honest to me to return something we know is voided for the warranty. THere is no way of knowing if her putting it in the dishwasher caused problems that resulted in the breakage.


    And I read somewhere that the soap isn't absorbed into the stone, but that it "sticks" to the fats/oils that are seasoned onto the pan, and that is why we taste it. I also read that the baking soda-paste concoction could help eliminate that (haven't tried it).
     
    Aug 19, 2009
    #11
  12. pc_jessica

    pc_jessica Advanced Member

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    my dh washed mine with soap (he was trying to help), and for the first couple times after that things didn't cook just right. they weren't as crispy and my rolls were still doughy on the bottom, but a year later and its back to normal! and my dh knows to never ever EVER put my stones near soap again!
     
    Aug 19, 2009
    #12
  13. cwinter474

    cwinter474 Veteran Member Gold Member

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    This is what I've been told as well.
     
    Aug 19, 2009
    #13
  14. Judybabe

    Judybabe Guest

    the stones are similar to cast iron. they have to build a season to be effective. who puts those in a dishwasher?
     
    Aug 19, 2009
    #14
  15. chefann

    chefann Legend Member Gold Member

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    The pressure of the water in the dishwasher is also bad for the stones. It can force the water into the pores of the stone, where it sits until the stone is used. Then it turns to steam and can break the stone.
     
    Aug 20, 2009
    #15
  16. raebates

    raebates Legend Member Staff Member

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    I would explain that washing the stone in the dishwasher voided the warranty. The product information says that it is not dishwasher safe.
     
    Aug 20, 2009
    #16
  17. jackieblue

    jackieblue Member

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    After an episode where DH tried to scrub the NEW seasoning from my BRAND NEW bar ban with a green pad and got green all over it (the pan I hosted a show just to get before I was a consultant!) he isn't allowed to mess with any of the stoneware, He just leaves it on the counter for me. I don't get what is so hard about scraping it with a nylon scraper either, but I don't mind doing it.

    The temperature changes of the dishwasher and the harsh detergent enzymes are definitely not good for a stone. Stones tend to be temperamental anyway (both my small oval baker and my DCB had to be returned under warranty before I was a consultant and I take impeccable care of my stoneware). I once turned up a stone baker in the center of the oven higher than 450 (of course it was my favorite long-retired one) and it cracked it right in half. I do use my pizza stone at 500 every time, but at the very, very bottom of the oven. And it's the old stone without handles.

    I won't put sharp knives in the dishwasher either, but I am a freak like that. :D
     
    Aug 20, 2009
    #17
  18. dkitten13

    dkitten13 Member

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    Some people (like my OCD MIL) don't think that anything can be cleaned without tons of soap. She still doesn't understand how the stonewear gets cleaned just with hot water. Its partially an old fashioned thing imho.
     
    Aug 20, 2009
    #18
  19. pcchefjane

    pcchefjane Senior Member Gold Member

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    We put the color-coated tomato knife in the DW and it was fine... Then we put 2 in there and it turned the Food Chopped plastic green as well some of the dishwasher plastic. Won't make that mistake again!
     
    Aug 20, 2009
    #19
  20. junkfortara

    junkfortara Member Gold Member

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    I'm confused why we say that it can't be washed with soap because it will absorb the taste of soap. Don't we also claim that the nonporous surface doesn't absorb flavors?! I understand that we say no soap because it breaks down the natural non-stick finish.. but we claim that it does not absorb oils or flavors from cooking, so how can we say it absorbs the soap taste??
     
    Aug 20, 2009
    #20
  21. pc_jessica

    pc_jessica Advanced Member

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    me either!!!
     
    Aug 20, 2009
    #21
  22. kdangel518

    kdangel518 Advanced Member Gold Member

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    Some of the oils stay behind and season the stone. It's not that the stone itself absorbs the soap, it's that the soap will attach to the seasoning/oils on the stone, and that is why your food will begin to taste soapy.

    Not to mention, the whole point of not washing it with soap is that it becomes more and more nonstick with each use. By washing with soap this will not happen! Reality is, you're just not supposed to wash stoneware with soap- it's not the best way to care for it.
     
    Aug 20, 2009
    #22
  23. chefann

    chefann Legend Member Gold Member

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    It's because the soap adheres to the oil molecules (seasoning) on the surface of the stone. Food doesn't do it, at least to the extent that it transfers flavors. It can, however, transfer other food oils, which is why it's important to have separate stones for family members with food allergies.
     
    Aug 20, 2009
    #23
  24. esavvymom

    esavvymom Legend Member Staff Member

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    Our knives aren't supposed to go in the dishwasher- according to the U&G...but no one reads those except me. :D They say not to put them in there so they don't clank around against things and get damaged/dulled.
     
    Aug 20, 2009
    #24
  25. suzipooh

    suzipooh Member Gold Member

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    For those who get the heebie jeebies about not using soap to clean their stones you may want to recommend using "Fit" or "Veggie Wash" these products are all natural, mostly citrus oil and do a fabulous job cleaning stones. Of course you can always use baking soda and water too.

    I was taught by my upline that the stones are virtually nonporous, but because soap molecules break down smaller than food molecules the soap can be absorbed and over time the stone will take on a soapy flavor. ???
     
    Aug 20, 2009
    #25
  26. pampchefsarah

    pampchefsarah Senior Member Gold Member

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    Here you go:
    How Soap Works

    Soap is a curious substance, designed to solve an intriguing problem. Most dirt that will not simply wipe off or be shaken out is in fact some form of fat or grease. In most households the most common cleaning agent is tap water. The problem is that grease and water fall into two different and largely incompatible chemical groups. Drop oil into water, and it will tend to float or form discrete droplets. Pour water into oil and you will see the same effect. Additionally, substances such as salt and sugar that dissolve in water will not dissolve in oil, whereas something like petrol will only float on water but is quite capable of dissolving oil.

    The Chemistry of Oils

    This difference in behaviour is due to the nature of the molecules involved. Water is largely polar, that is, water molecules tend to separate into fragments with opposite electrical charges, one positive and one negative. Chemicals such as table salt that happen to be made up of collections of charged fragments, or ions, find it easy to dissolve in water because the positive ions in the salt are attracted to the negative ions in the water, and vice versa. Similarly, the charged nature of water means that water is a good conductor of electricity.

    Fats and oils, on the other hand, tend not to be polar. Their molecules have no particular electrical charge, and so are not attracted to polar substances such as salt. Instead, they prefer to bond with other non-polar substances. Fats and oils tend to be electrical insulators.

    Washing Up

    This, then, returns us to the washing-up. You have a greasy dish in a bowl of water, but the grease is showing no inclination to dissolve in the water because the water is polar and the grease is not. Attack the grease with a cloth and most of what you achieve is to move it around on the plate, because it is trying to flatten itself against the surface of the plate in a effort to get away from the water molecules.

    The soap molecule is a halfway house. It consists of a long strand with an ionic water-loving, grease-repelling group on one end, and a non-polar grease-loving, water-repelling group on the other. If you drop soap into clean water, all the molecules gather on the surface with their water-loving (hydrophilic) ionic ends stuck in the water and their fat-loving (lipophilic) ends waving in the air. Slide a dirty dish in, however, and the lipophilic end of each molecule sticks to the grease as it slips past. As the dish sinks, it takes the soap molecules with it, attached by their heads to the grease but still waving their hydrophilic tails in the water like microscopic tadpoles.

    All you have to do now is bash at the dirt with a sponge or cloth, and it can be persuaded to leave the plate, for as it lifts off the surface it becomes insulated from the water as new soap molecules rush in and try to bury their heads in it. The end result is a small blob of grease completely surrounded by a layer of soap molecules, all with their lipophilic heads pointing inwards and their hydrophilic tails pointing outwards. As far as the grease is concerned, all it can see are lipophilic molecules, and as far as the water is concerned, all it can see is a rather large hydrophilic lump.

    Eventually, of course, all the soap molecules are used up, and you have to tip out the washing-up water and start again. Pass the tea-towel.


    So, as has been stated, the soap sticks to the grease/oil/seasoning, which means that you're washing off your hard-earned seasoning, and risking having soap stuck behind in the remaining seasoning.

    If a stone is seasoned it won't be able to absorb anything - except, maybe, water being blasted at it in the dishwasher.
     
  27. Kitchen Diva

    Kitchen Diva Legend Member Gold Member

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    I agree. My step-sister told me they were difficult to clean. I asked her which one she had, and she said, the flat rectangle one with no sides.

    :eek: seriously? Um, I can wash that turkey in 30 seconds!

    Drives me nuts how lazy people can be.
     
    Aug 20, 2009
    #27
  28. Kitchen Diva

    Kitchen Diva Legend Member Gold Member

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    Glad to see there are two fellow knife freaks out here with me. :)
     
    Aug 20, 2009
    #28
  29. BlessedWifeMommy

    BlessedWifeMommy Veteran Member

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    How clean was she trying to get it? :D :cool:
     
  30. shelly.nurse

    shelly.nurse Member

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    I had one host once who said she only uses her stone for pizza and not very often because she hates cleaning it. When I asked her about it, she said she can't stand the "dirty" look of the stoneware and scrubs it clean after each use. No soap, just elbow grease. She thinks it is disgusting that I scrape mine with the pan scraper, rinse and let dry. I will sometimes place it in the cooling off oven, so I know that it is completely dry. My oven is still slightly warm after dinner is over and I am in the process of clean-up. Having taken microbiology, I know that pathogenic microorganisms (harmful germs) require two things that our properly cleaned stoneware won't provide-moisture and nutrients. Besides, most pathogenic bacteria are killed when cooking food to proper temperatures, except botulism, which is caused by improperly canned food.

    I do keep a big box of baking soda under my kitchen sink and usually do the paste method if I am cooking raw meat on my stoneware, just as a precaution!!

    BTW- I have had my garlic roasted potatoes taste like cinnamon after cooking cinnamon rolls on the large bar pan for breakfast, then roasted potatoes for dinner. So I also use the paste method of cleaning my bar pan if I know I will be using it at a show.
     
    Aug 27, 2009
    #30
  31. Sheila

    Sheila Legend Member Gold Member

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    For the anal stone cleaners (((pointing at myself))) ...

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    It's by OXO and made to put soap in the handle. I do not put soap in the handle, I just use the scrubbing part to clean my stones. Oh, and this sucker makes cleaning the fluted stone HEAVEN! :sing: It gets down in all the grooves soooo well.

    I think PC should sell one without the soap option. :D
     
    Aug 27, 2009
    #31
  32. chefann

    chefann Legend Member Gold Member

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    We do have a brush - the Easy Clean Kitchen Brush is a godsend for cleaning stones! And it even has a scraper built in. I've got one that came in my kit nearly 8 years ago, and it still looks like new. So it's not only a useful tool, it's a durable one.
     
    Aug 27, 2009
    #32
  33. babywings76

    babywings76 Legend Member Gold Member

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    Yep! I love our brush. I love the long handle too, so I can keep my hands out of the HOT water I use when I clean my stoneware. And I love how I can put it through the dishwasher every now and then and keep it looking brand new. It's awesome! :)
     
    Aug 27, 2009
    #33
  34. ivykeep

    ivykeep Advanced Member Gold Member

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    The stone doesn't absorb the soap -- the soap bonds with the coating of oils that builds up on the stone (the "seasoning" of the stone) and that's where the soapy taste can come from.
     
    Aug 27, 2009
    #34
  35. mmoran4pc

    mmoran4pc Novice Member

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    I did a show today and they put theirs in the dishwasher. They were black....eww
     
    Sep 13, 2009
    #35
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