Personal Is it okay to discipline someone else's child?

[lesliec]

Ok, to give you a little background DH and I have pretty old fashioned family values, we are in Texas and are extremely conservative. My children say please and thank you, they appologize if they hurt someone (even if it is an accident), and they say yes ma'am (or no ma'am) when an adult asks them something. We teach them that it is ok to disagree, but they must do so respectfully. In additon we treat our children with the same respect. We love on and praise and use our manners with them, becaues 1. that's how people should treat each other and 2. we don't feel like they will learn it if they don't see it from us. We don't spank, we do believe in it, but we are adopting out children and aren't allowed to, but also don't feel like it would be beneficial to them given their past.
We are involved in a bible study group that meets on Friday nights. We meet for dinner and then have bible study. It is a family group so all of the children are there and the moms (and sometimes the dads) will take turns watching the kids and doing activites with them.
The family and child that I am having the issue with is from the noth west and are pretty new to living in our area, not that there are not plenty of people from this area whose kids act the same way, I just feel like some of it may be atributed to being from a different culture. The mother is pretty high need, and they aren't around our group that much as she doesn't go anywhere withouth her husband and he is working on his Master's and is gone two weekends a month. She also has a baby who is about 4 months old, so she misses a bit due to that. When she is there much of the conversation is monopolized by talking about all of her health problems, and how hard it is with a baby (nursing issues, no sleep.... the normal new mommy problems just multiplied by 50).
Last night I was outside with a couple of other mothers and about 14 kids (The other mother never volunteers to go out and help). There are 4 boys in the 4-6 year range, including one of mine. We'll call this other little boy Bob. We were in the back yard and all 4 boys ran around the side of the house to get toys out of the garage and then started heading out front. I walked around and called them all into the backyard to play. All of the boys except Bob came back to the back yard. Bob tells me that he doesn't want to and starts arguing (he's 4). I repeated my instructions several different ways and each time he argued with me. Then I told him that his choice was to come to the back yard or to go to time out. He came to the back yard, but was back talking and kicking things the whole way. I don't deal well with disrespectful kids, but I know that the parents allow him to talk to them this way, so I just let it go. This scenatio repeats itself 3 more times in about a 45 minute time period, only with one of the other mothers b/c I had to stay out of it. Then, as it is getting dark Bob, just takes off running all the way around the house. The second time he does it he runs in the front door. I see him go in and run to his parents, and can see that they are probably going to send him back out (as he is a huge disruption inside), so I go in and tell the father that he isn't listening to us and is running into the front yard out by the road. I tried to address it as a safety issue and that he wasn't safe b/c we weren't able to protect him from running into the street. They didn't send him out, but I could see that he was being really disruptive. When it was all over and we were all back in, they made him come appologize to me. I stated that he also needed to appologize to the mother of the house b/c he was disrespectful to her also. I then told the parents that boys will be boys, and that my oldest was in on the drama too, but my problem is when he runs off and won't listen or come back and I have no way to protect him. I could tell she was pretty upset, so I went and appologized and told her that I wasn't upset with her. She went off into this big drama about how she is a bad mother and she is responsible and it is her fault he acts this way (I totally agree), but I just tried to consol her.
Bob's mom has issues to say the least, but I don't really know how to deal with this. She is the type of person that lives on drama, and even if everything is wonderful she will find something to complain about. I have never heard her say anything positive about her 4month old, all she has done is complain. Honestly I want to tell her that since she doesn't treasure her baby I would love to raise him. We aren't able to have children, so when people do nothing but complain about theirs and not see what a blessing they truly are, it makes me so angry. Don't get me wrong, I understand having a baby and a 4 year old is hard, I just wish once I would see her acknowledge what a gift God has given her.

 

[AJPratt]

WOW, Leslie. I know EXACTLY how you feel. We tried for 5 years for a child. Thankfully, we have been blessed with our daughter. But it was so hard for me to hear people complain about their children. I certainly do understand because I sure have some moments that are challenging! LOL But it was tough for me because some people just don't see how hard it is for someone who really wants one to not have a child. I would say something like, "I am sorry that is tough for you, but you have no idea what I would give to be able to be in your position".

I have learned (recently, LOL) that some people are always going to complain no matter what and always see the negative in ANY situation.

 

[pampchefsarah]

It sounds to me like this mother needs mentors, both a mothering mentor and a Christian mentor. Maybe you can ask your pastor or others in your church if they know of a Christian parenting class in which this couple (or, at least the mother) can participate. Is there an older woman in the church who has great parenting skills, and a strong Christian faith, who might be willing to take this woman under her wing, and gently guide her? Hmm, where is Super Nanny when you need her?!

 

[lesliec]

Thank you Anne, I love your words.

Sarah, I think you are abslutely right, but I am not sure if she would even be open to it. She is so outspoken, and honestly doesn't stop talking long enough to listen. We don't actually go to the same church. Our group is a mix of people who have come together from 3 different churches, but I do know that her church has a mentoring program, I actually went through it about 7 years ago (our church is really small and I actually feel like we are kinda Missonaries out in our little community).
She is a strong Christian and has lots of head knowledge, but am not sure about her heart knowledge (if that makes sense). I really feel like a lot of the issues come from our cultural differences. She is the head of her household, she makes the rules and everyone else abides by them. I am definitely a strong mother, but still allow my husband to be the head of our household.
Thank you for listening to me. I don't feel like there is really a good answer. I don't feel like we are really going to come to a solution, especially not quickly, it just seems that as the kids get older, and I see my boys overcoming a lot of their problems, I have less patience for others that don't even seem to be pro-active about their children.

 

[AJPratt]

You are very welcome! Sometimes, there really isn't a solution. I LOVE Sarah's idea of the mentor. I know being a northern gal, southern culture is different, but there is no excuse for lack of courtesy or bad manners.

BTW, I know what you mean by heart/head Christian.

 

[pampchefsarah]

You are very welcome! Sometimes, there really isn't a solution. I LOVE Sarah's idea of the mentor. I know being a northern gal, southern culture is different, but there is no excuse for lack of courtesy or bad manners.BTW, I know what you mean by heart/head Christian.

Yep, I think that's something with which we all struggle. Well, I know I do on a daily basis. There has to be a point, though, where a person acknowledges there IS a difference.

 

[AJPratt]

Yep, I think that's something with which we all struggle. Well, I know I do on a daily basis. There has to be a point, though, where a person acknowledges there IS a difference.

You are right. I struggle too. Its easy to say you are a Christian, but to really live the life can be challenging.

 

[lesliec]

Thanks ladies. Even beyond the heart vs. head thing, it often makes me wonder when you know someone has the heart there, based on their words, but their life isn't bearing fruit. I know we all have struggles and I am the first to stand up and admit that I am a sinner, I make lots of mistakes, and quite often I do what is satisfying to my flesh and not to the Lord, but I really struggle with perpetual negativity and worrying. We all worry and we are all negative about things, but when you pray about something you need to give it to HIM and quit worrying and telling Him that you don't trust Him enough to take care of it.

 

[mrshamel3808]

She is a strong Christian and has lots of head knowledge, but am not sure about her heart knowledge (if that makes sense). I really feel like a lot of the issues come from our cultural differences. She is the head of her household, she makes the rules and everyone else abides by them..

This is the part that sounds like the biggest problem. When the woman is leading the household, it throws all the dynamics of the family off because that's not who women were created to be and how they were created to function. Not that are incapable, single mothers for example need to be the head of the household when there isn't a male figure present. But it could very well be that this is the reason for his lack of obedience...if her husband doesn't take part in the rules/discipline and she's at the end of her rope with a 4 month old, then discpline for her older child might definitely take back burner. Plus if she's feeling like she has to be the head of household AND the mom, that's probably stressful too! I don't have kids yet and I'm so thankful that I can defer to my husband for decisions. Obviously I give my opinion (He's a WAY more passive personality than I am) and he takes it into consideration but I like being able to say "we have to make this decision", we talk it over but then I can say "ok, you know how I feel, I know how you feel, now you make the final decision and I'll trust you on that" and it allows me to be able to not worry about it (if I choose not to). Does that make sense? I really feel strongly that in Christian marriages it's a foundational principle that the man is the head of the household and that the woman supports the man and helps shape him to be a strong man of God (not just a "submissive" wife").

 

[lesliec]

Well said Elise. I think all to often the word submissive is confused for door mat. I am too a strong personality, and would never be a door mat, but I do also submit to my husband.

 

[raebates]

Ah, submission--the 10-letter 4-letter word. I believe wholeheartedly in submission. Thankfully, I'm married to a man who understands servant leadership.I wish I had advice for you. It's so very difficult to address the behavior of someone else's child, let alone when one of the parents is that passive-aggressive. I will, however, keep your group in prayer as they deal with this issue.

 

[mrshamel3808]

Ah, submission--the 10-letter 4-letter word. I believe wholeheartedly in submission. Thankfully, I'm married to a man who understands servant leadership.

Amen! Our pastor and his wife are amazing teachers on the topic of marriage and it's the biggest thing for them. Men have messed up big time when it comes to how to treat women, but that doesn't mean we now make ourselves exactly the same as well. The feminist movement helped in some areas but then has taken it a bit too far.

But again, I can only imagine that having to fulfill both of those roles in the household would be especially stressful for her so maybe that's why she's so negative about the baby. Or maybe it's a form of post-pardum depression?

 

[baychef]

It sounds to me as if the child is acting out to get attention. Any kind of attention is better than no attention. Mother has issues but until she decides to do something to change these issues, the child will act out. Perhaps if this happens again, give him more attention for the good things he has done (like Super Nanny does). I think you handled him beautifully because he needs to see that although this behavior may get him what he needs at home, it does not get him the same results in the big wide world. If Mom and Dad don't get their act together, he will keep these behaviors for a very long time.

 

[lockhartkitchen]

Thanks for sharing. I know it can be hard when we see others not handling things the same way. We have friends who let their two children "lead the household". My friend makes the two kids whatever they want each night for dinner, and her and her husband usually eat fast food. I've given her many of our PC meal ideas and she always says the kids wouldn't eat it. I told her, a kid never goes hungry. They would eat it or have a big breakfast. Her kids yell and scream at her and she allows it. Early this week, the 8 year old came home and saw that her dad had borrowed her computer chair to bring into the office for my husband to use. She yelled at her dad saying he needed to ask permission to borrow the chair, etc. He actually apologized to her and said he would ask next time. My husband spoke up and told the little girl that in our house, if one of our girls had said that, they not only would have been spanked, but they wouldn't have a chair if it weren't for the hard work their mom does to provide a roof over their head and a chair to sit in.

 

[emiscookin]

Ok, to give you a little background DH and I have pretty old fashioned family values, we are in Texas and are extremely conservative. My children say please and thank you, they appologize if they hurt someone (even if it is an accident), and they say yes ma'am (or no ma'am) when an adult asks them something. We teach them that it is ok to disagree, but they must do so respectfully. In additon we treat our children with the same respect. We love on and praise and use our manners with them, becaues 1. that's how people should treat each other and 2. we don't feel like they will learn it if they don't see it from us.

That's how me and my siblings were raised and I feel that EVERY child should be raised like that! Maybe our world would be a little bit of a better place.

WOW, Leslie. I know EXACTLY how you feel. We tried for 5 years for a child. Thankfully, we have been blessed with our daughter. But it was so hard for me to hear people complain about their children. I certainly do understand because I sure have some moments that are challenging! LOL But it was tough for me because some people just don't see how hard it is for someone who really wants one to not have a child. I would say something like, "I am sorry that is tough for you, but you have no idea what I would give to be able to be in your position".

I have learned (recently, LOL) that some people are always going to complain no matter what and always see the negative in ANY situation.

I know EXACTLY how you feel too! Me and my hubby have been married 4 years and STILL have had no success with having a child! I've had 2 miscarriages (which thankfully happened in the first trimester and not farther along!) but I was overweight and have Poly-Cystic Ovarian Syndrome (PCOS). It SUCKS! :cry: I've lost almost 30 pounds on WW's so that's gonna be a big help, but there are still issues that I am trying to work out with my OB. We hope and pray God blesses us with a child soon. We know everything is according to His time and not ours, but...it gets so hard to have that faith sometimes.

Anyway, thanks for sharing your experience. It looks like Bob's mother needs to read the scriptures more and try and bring herself closer to God. (Heck, I know I have to work on that more!) She will find that God does not "give us the spirit of fear."

 

[emiscookin]

Thanks ladies. Even beyond the heart vs. head thing, it often makes me wonder when you know someone has the heart there, based on their words, but their life isn't bearing fruit. I know we all have struggles and I am the first to stand up and admit that I am a sinner, I make lots of mistakes, and quite often I do what is satisfying to my flesh and not to the Lord, but I really struggle with perpetual negativity and worrying. We all worry and we are all negative about things, but when you pray about something you need to give it to HIM and quit worrying and telling Him that you don't trust Him enough to take care of it.

You hit it right on the dot! :thumbup: I echo those words.

I am such a big worrier about even the littlest things (I've gotten better though ) and even growing up a Christian, I am still learning to put my faith in God always! I always remind myself that with fear there is no faith, and with faith there is no fear. And when I have put my faith and trust in the Lord I have found that I feel MUCH better and everything turns out for the better.