Are Siblings Allowed to Participate in All Cub Scout Activities?

[ChefBeckyD]

We have a Wolf Scout in our home.

I have a question about Scouting, and I can't post it on FB, because some of the people involved would see it....

For those of you with Cub Scouts, what I would like to know is if siblings are allowed to come to all meetings/outings, etc... and participate in all of the scouting activities also?

In my son's Den, there are about 4-6 siblings that are allowed to come to every meeting and outing, and participate fully in all of the scout activities. Tonight, they had an outing to Home Depot for a building project, and there were several siblings there - including small ones crying, and older ones who were misbehaving. My DH and I both feel like our son worked hard to sell his popcorn, and has paid his dues to be a Cub Scout, and we just think that the Scouting events should be about the scouts and not all the other kids who are there. What is the specialness of being a Scout, if everyone and anyone can tag along and do it all?

For my husband, the defining moment for feeling like this was tonight, when he went to buy some lumber for another Cub Scout building project (that he is in charge of leading) and one of the leaders said to him "Don't forget to buy enough for the siblings to do it too." Ummm....we are spending our own money to buy the materials for this project, and now we are expected to buy for 16 kids instead of just 10 scouts? Really?

Anyway - a little venting going on here too... - but for those of you with Scouts, how does your Pack/Den handle siblings? Is this just par for the course, or is this out of the ordinary?

 

[PampChefJoy]

I am a Girl Scout leader - not sure if it's exactly the same for Boy Scouts, but in GS, the insurance (what part of your membership dues pays for) does NOT cover anyone other than registered members at meetings/events... therefore, siblings and parents typically shouldn't be in the meeting. Most all of my girls have one parent who is registered anyway, which helps with carpooling for field trips... but I usually tell them they don't need to stick around unless I specifically ask for their help with wrangling a project. Siblings are definitely NOT supposed to be included. Events are different - sometimes they are "family events" and there is supplemental insurance we have to purchase to cover non-members, but typical troop events/activities/field trips should be limited to leaders and girls.Not sure how you want to address that, though... that's a tough one... but I definitely agree that you shouldn't spend troop money to finance non-members' activities.Does the troop vote on how to use earned funds?

 

[esavvymom]

I'm one of the Committee Leaders in our Cub Scout Pack. While we do try to include siblings to a point (family outings, big parties, etc), we have currently left it to the Den Leaders to enforce any issues with siblings, etc. Fortunately, now, most of our families do NOT bring them. A couple do from time to time have the littler ones in there. It's mainly been left with the Den Leaders. But I do agree (and hadn't thought of) Joy's point about insurance. The BSA insurance covers the Scout members/leaders, so not siblings.Some events, we've had a few parent who takes the siblings to the side to do their project or activities. That may be an option that can be suggested for those who have siblings at every event.....a few of those parents do something with the siblings, while the Scouts do their work.As far as buying material for siblings...NO. You buy for the Den's scouts only. And you let the Den Leaders know that you will only be purchasing for the Scouts! If siblings want to participate, then you can provide the parents with a shopping list of material. (It would be a great way to give them the hint to do something else.) The budget for a pack can be very tight! Or if the Den Leaders are paying it out of pocket, even worse! *(By the way- save receipts for taxes- if you are not getting reimbursed! It's considered charity and is deductible!)From MY perspective, if you can talk to your Den leaders, I would suggest that. If not there, then go to the Cubmaster and express your concerns. If that doesn't work, perhaps the Committee. (I'm the Secretary in ours.) The Cubmaster's role is technically to interface with the Dens/Den Leaders. The Committee is over the Cubmaster/whole pack. Good luck. It can be tough to deal with. It may be one of those situations that the Cubmaster (someone who is more removed from the den/personal level) may have to be the one, or even the committee, to suggest the guideline.

 

[ChefBeckyD]

I'm one of the Committee Leaders in our Cub Scout Pack. While we do try to include siblings to a point (family outings, big parties, etc), we have currently left it to the Den Leaders to enforce any issues with siblings, etc. Fortunately, now, most of our families do NOT bring them. A couple do from time to time have the littler ones in there. It's mainly been left with the Den Leaders. But I do agree (and hadn't thought of) Joy's point about insurance. The BSA insurance covers the Scout members/leaders, so not siblings.

Some events, we've had a few parent who takes the siblings to the side to do their project or activities. That may be an option that can be suggested for those who have siblings at every event.....a few of those parents do something with the siblings, while the Scouts do their work.

As far as buying material for siblings...NO. You buy for the Den's scouts only. And you let the Den Leaders know that you will only be purchasing for the Scouts! If siblings want to participate, then you can provide the parents with a shopping list of material. (It would be a great way to give them the hint to do something else.) The budget for a pack can be very tight! Or if the Den Leaders are paying it out of pocket, even worse! *(By the way- save receipts for taxes- if you are not getting reimbursed! It's considered charity and is deductible!)

From MY perspective, if you can talk to your Den leaders, I would suggest that. If not there, then go to the Cubmaster and express your concerns. If that doesn't work, perhaps the Committee. (I'm the Secretary in ours.) The Cubmaster's role is technically to interface with the Dens/Den Leaders. The Committee is over the Cubmaster/whole pack.

Good luck. It can be tough to deal with. It may be one of those situations that the Cubmaster (someone who is more removed from the den/personal level) may have to be the one, or even the committee, to suggest the guideline.

The problem is that it's the Cubmaster, and committee members who have siblings there. (and are some of the worst behaved!)

I totally get Family activities - but this is EVERY Den/Pack meeting, and EVERY outing. The only one where there haven't been siblings was Camp.

 

[minirottie]

The problem is that it's the Cubmaster, and committee members who have siblings there. (and are some of the worst behaved!)

I totally get Family activities - but this is EVERY Den/Pack meeting, and EVERY outing. The only one where there haven't been siblings was Camp.

Sounds like people abusing the system....who is the next level up (or is there somewhere to go for advice) to get some guidance on how to address. When I picture Scouts, I picture the participants and leaders..it's not a babysitting club. If you join a bowling league, you bowl-you don't have your kid as an additional player on the game because you didn't have (or get) a babysitter that night.

 

[Becca_in_MD]

Ditto what Joy said about my daughter's GS troop. Some cluster activities will say families/siblings welcome, and if there is a fee, then the fee for the family is specified. Sometimes the troop will pay part of the girl's fee for an activity. We pay dues to the troop at the beginning of the year which covers supplies, usually arts & crafts and badges. They use cookie money to cover expenses above the dues and a bigger activity (ie. Medieval Times) at the end of the year. The girls vote on how to spend their cookie money. The leaders are not spending out of pocket for supplies. We ran a cluster activity a couple of weeks ago and charged other scouts to attend. I was told I could submit receipts for the supplies that I purchased for the event, but I didn't since it was so minimal. I'm lucky because we have great co-leaders (I have to praise them even though I know they won't see it because I don't want them to quit!!!)

You're in a tough spot. You know I'm not like you so I would avoid confrontation at all costs. Since its the leaders who are the problem, I would speak on the side to parents of kids who do not have siblings involved. See if they're annoyed as well. One way to push the issue is to have DH submit the receipt to the troop and ask for reimbursement for the lumber supplies if he/you can get away with playing dumb about those expenses coming out of your own pocket. If it was clear at the beginning of the year that there wouldn't be reimbursement and he did purchase lumber for the siblings, ask to be reimbursed for the extra for the siblings.

Another tack to take is to get the bylaws or whatever the governing rules of boy scouts are and ask them to be adhered to. An initial discussion with the Den leader or whoever in a non-confrontational way is probably best. You're right, it's your son's activity and those who do have siblings participating are losing out on their special accomplishments. Believe me, I hear enough of my DD bragging to her younger brother about what she gets to do as a scout He has no interest in scouting, so "ha" to her.

 

[esavvymom]

Yikes. That does make it tougher!! I'm not sure what to tell you in this case. Talk to some of the other parents in the group maybe?? Or the Den leaders. Unfortunately, if that's the way it is there, and no sign of change (which is not likely with leaders being the culprit), maybe it's time to look for another pack that suits your desire of Scouting. Sounds like if he's a Wolf- he's young enough to get into another group and make friends while he's young. Transfers only should cost you $1-2.
It may not be the ideal, but getting other people to change is hard....and even harder to do without making someone mad/offended. But if your son and his dad get to find a pack that gives them the Scout experience you really want (and deserve), it's worth it.Wish you the best!

 

[Becca_in_MD]

Another option is to start your own pack. Be a leader! Pull those kids who don't have siblings with them into your new pack. I will continue to praise my daughter's leaders (yeah Ruth & Jennifer!!!!) because I will never be a leader. So far I have succeeded in never doing a sleep-over event with the troop, either. I sold cookies for 4 hours on Sunday in front of a supermarket. I would do that 10 times over rather than have to lead the troop every meeting or sleep with them. My daughter's sleep-over 9th birthday party was bad enough! Is your DH interested in leading these activities? You could do it, too.

 

[esavvymom]

If the den is large enough (8 boys is considered "ideal" size)....maybe you can propose SPLITTING the den into two dens. We've done that- when we've had 12 or more boys in a den. Not sure if that would work or not.It's not terribly easy to start a new pack. You have to have a Charter Sponsor, committee, etc, and enough people for the Two-deep leadership, etc. But not impossible.

 

[wadesgirl]

One thing to keep in mind - when I was younger my dad was raising my little brother and myself (older siblings were out of the house and my mom was living in another state). My dad brought me to all the meetings with them because he really didn't have anything else to do with me. I wasn't included in everything, most of the time I read a book or hung out with another girl who's parent's and brothers were a part of the pack also. Other times I was able to get involved (personally I loved boy scouts than the one year I did girl scouts). I had two or three pinewood derby cars, went on camping trips, got my knife safety certificate, learned knots, etc. As I got older and could stay home by myself my dad still included me in some scouting stuff with them but not as much. I still enjoyed the good quality bonding we were able to get out of it. I know this may not be the case of some of the kids in your troop but just another perspective. If they are being disruptive, I would find someone to talk to, even going to the council you are involved with.

 

[DebbieJ]

My husband is our son's Den Leader.Den meetings & activities are usually scouts only and if a parent has to bring another sibling along, they don't participate. At most other pack activities, siblings are allowed, but usually their participation is limited. I would never expect my younger son to participate fully in things like you are describing, even if I did need to bring him along with me.

 

[pamperedlinda]

Hey Becky,

My husband is cubmaster for my son's pack. He says this is not right at all. He said that since you are in a situation where you not comfortable going to your cubmaster with the problem that you need to go to your Unit Commissioner. You can find out who that is thru your Local Council or you can find out who it is on your Local District Website.

Good luck! I'd be peeved too.

 

[scottcooks]

It seems you have a decision to make. Continue with the goofy status quo, or decide that for you and your family, another path is better. Either go to another pack or tell these folks they have to change.If you choose to be an agent of change - tie up your big boy/girl shoes and recognize... It's time to do what's right. You will not be liked, but others who are thinking the same thing will appreciate you for doing so. I would write to ALL the scouts and say, "We have been confused. Our activities are not a church camp or a YMCA - this is cub scouts. We have done a disservice to our sons and need to correct our course. Effective immediately, siblings are no longer welcome at our den meetings", and CC your unit commissioner. State reasons of misuse of pack funds, extra time and planning for the other kids, added cost of materials for sibs, and remind the parents that all families and guests are invited to pack meetings, and to blue & gold banquet and big events (RG regatta / PW derby) in particular, but regular den meetings exist for the cubs.If you choose to leave... Worst case scenario is having to go to another pack nearby. I would still write to the den leader / pack leader and unit commissioner and state your reasons for leaving. The problem is, you are going to face some sort of backflabber from the parents who won't get a sitter, who don't have an alternative for other kids or who just like it as a y'all come kind of event. The pack leader is wrong - part of being wrong is being told so and dealing with the consequences. Unfortunately there are consequences for you and your family as well - I get that. But to me there is a bigger issue here. Stand up for what you know is right. Teach your kids. We'll pray for you!Our own pack is having a parent "sit and get" meeting - we had an unusual situation where another pack joined ours and they have many challenging kids. Our den was 6-8 boys and is now regularly 11-15. No one wanted to step up to be den leader, (pack leader is brand new and should've asked last year...) So I've had a couple "secondary lessons" for when the den gets to more than 9, to split kiddos in half and do the units over 2 weeks. The added boys have been troublesome. At least 5 of them are behaviorally challenged. My son goes that way if I step out of the room long enough - apparently one week when my wife took him he was really bad, and another parent took her to task. But that's the thing - the parents need to correct other parents so kids benefit. Just MHO... Peace!