Stoneware in dishwasher w/out soap?

Discussion in 'Products and Tips' started by lacychef, Dec 9, 2007.

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  1. So, I had some customers ask this; they couldn't get over how you're supposed to wash the stones. Someone asked if they could put it in the dishwasher without soap; to use that super-hot water---thinking it would sanitize it better.
    I was going to call HO tomorrow, but thought I'd ask you all if you've asked this before!
     
  2. BethCooks4U

    BethCooks4U Gold Member

    NO!

    Never put stoneware in the dishwasher.
     
  3. chefann

    chefann Gold Member

    The force of the water can cause microscopic cracks which can then break during use. Not necessarily the next time it's used, either, but at some random moment (usually when there's something messy on the stone).
     
  4. cmdtrgd

    cmdtrgd Gold Member

    Also, the fast temperature fluctuations can cause the microfractures. Where do they think the hot water comes from? Most comes from their own hot water heater. Why don't they just put really hot water on it from the sink and then go do something else while it sanitizes it for a few minutes?!?!?
     
  5. Kitchen Diva

    Kitchen Diva Gold Member

    If they still can't get over the fact that soap does not KILL bacteria, it just either halts its growth, or softens food so that water and a good scrubbing can losen it off the stoneware or pot, or pan, or plate, or fork...you get the idea, tell them to wash it as you directed them to, and put it in their oven at 200 degrees for 15 minutes and it will santize it that way. Cool completely before washing, or putting away.

    You could also remind them that back in the day when that is all people cooked with...they didn't have soap. :)

    I had a group of ladies at my last show that said they used soap, etc... well I told them that there is a very good possibilty that they just nulled and voided their warranty. Soap isn't what cleans your stoneware, it's hot water and a good scraping or scrubbing. Some times I just get tired of "arguing" with people that (think they) know more about what I'm selling and have studied...

    The host mentioned after her show that she uses soap on her rectangle flat stone, and I asked to see it. The thing was PITCH black and sticky! I asked her how long she had had it, and how often she used it, and she said she had it about a year, and used it a few times a month. I've seen stones older than hers was, and ones that were more heavily used, and they were just a nice chocolate color. I then found out that not only does she use soap, but she uses PAM on it too...which explains the stickiness...

    People will follow washing instructions for silk, cashmere and silver, but they won't follow it for a stone? Beats me!!!
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2007
  6. wadesgirl

    wadesgirl Gold Member

    Don't you hate it when people do that? Like the lady who tells me she uses her stone ALL the time on her grill (good luck with that!) or the ones who say they use soap all the time. My favorite was the lady who told me yesterday that her ice cream scoops go in the dishwasher all the time and she's never had a problem. Then she said, well, they don't do as good as they used to!!!

    I swear my director told me that she tells people that if they have a problem with the no soap thing or having to handwash that they can run them through the dishwasher with no soap. Luckily, after seeing what was posted today, I've never mentioned that to anyone.
     
  7. Kitchen Diva

    Kitchen Diva Gold Member

    Yeah, you really shouldn't run it through the dishwasher. The influx of water temp, and the high pressure should be hint enough that you shouldn't do that or thermo shock could take place..but people would rather tell us they've found a way to break the rules (and then wonder why they don't get the results we promised) and we don't know what we're talking about...
     
  8. My SIL uses a small amount of soap on her stones and a girl at work puts hers in the dishwasher... she told one of my other customers this in front of me and I told them both that the temperature changes can cause tehm to break eventually. The girl who puts them in the dishwasher also uses them on the stovetop to warm food back up... I hope she never has one break! I have told them both but they don't listen!
     
  9. ivykeep

    ivykeep Gold Member

    It may be possible that it breaks, but I have an eczema skin condition on my hands that is heavily aggravated by hot water so I have ALWAYS run ALL of my stoneware through the dishwasher -- some of it I've had more than 8 years and the only time I have EVER had a stone break was my large stone with handles that has never been in the dishwasher and I was baking cookings using parchment and accidentally put my regular large stone in the oven on top of the large stone with handles (they were stacked on the counter when I put the parchment on the large stone and I got distracted and didn't realize I had two stones when I picked up the handles). The stone with handles cracked in the oven, but had nothing to do with dishwashers.

    I don't advertise or promote this fact, but if asked I will tell someone (and also mention that it may void their warranty).

    I also have a non-pc stoneware that states it is dishwasher safe, which is why my stoneware ever went in the dishwasher in the first place.

    Honestly, I love my stoneware, but if I had to hand clean it, I would never use it EVER because it simply isn't worth months of cracked and bleeding hands.
     
  10. Thanks ladies; I was pretty sure that they shouldn't, but hadn't actually come across this ? before.
     
  11. I have done both...soap and dishwasher. This was before I became a consultant. I have told many of my customer this too...but I do tell them if they do this it will void their warranty! And the stone could break....probably when they had a ooey gooey recipe in it!
     
  12. ChefBeckyD

    ChefBeckyD Gold Member


    Not trying to be a smart-aleck or anything - just curious why you don't just use gloves when you need to wash dishes?
     
  13. cmdtrgd

    cmdtrgd Gold Member


    I don't have a skin condition, but where I live it gets pretty dry in the winter months. I use our kitchen brush and don't ever have to get my hands in the hot water.
     
  14. wadesgirl

    wadesgirl Gold Member

    I was going to suggest this. I love our kitchen brush for handwashing because if it's a quick job, I don't have to get my hands wet at all or pull out gloves.
     
  15. baychef

    baychef Silver Member

    The hot water to sanitize has to be at least 180 degrees (too hot for human touch) and it has to be in it for about 1 minute. Or a chemical sanitizer must be used...one of either bleach or quats (short for a long name that is quatinery something or other!!) It must be in this solution for at least one minute. I am a food service director and taught sanitation for 10 years.

    Cleaning is removing the debris from a surface. If soap and water is used, the item must then be rinsed with clear water and then sanitized.

    It floors people who insist on using soap to "sanitize" their stones when I tell them that the drinking glasses that you hand washed in hot soapy water, then rinsed in hot water and air dried...are not sanitized and bacteria can still remain on their "clean" drinking glass. It just goes against all that they have done and most choose to not believe it!!!
     
  16. pampered1224

    pampered1224 Silver Member

    Whay do people think they know better???

    I decided a long time ago not to argue with a customer. I tell everyone to hand wash in water only or, if the mess is greasy to use a quick swipe of a dish rag with a little soap then rinse it well. I had a custome tell me that she always soaks her stones in soapy water to clean them. I asked her how that works for her. She said it has never been a problem. Until the day I got a phone call and she complianed to me that her stoneware mufiin pan had a funny smell. I asked her ehat she had baked on it. She sadi she baked cupcakes in it for her sons birthday to take to school and the kids all complined that the cupcakes tasted like Dawn dish soap. Well, I asked her what she had made in the pan before the cupcakes. She told me she made mini-meat loafs and had left it the pan sit in the dishwater to get rid of the baked on meat and grease. Ia sked her what was in the water. She said she did what she always does, she used soap. I said "There is your answer. I asked you once at a party how soaking the stoneware in soap was working for you. You told me it was never a problem. And I left it at that. Well, now you know why we tell you never use soap." The first thing she asked was how to get it replaced. I told her plain and simply by purchasing a new one. Once the Home Office discovers that you used soap, even though it clearly states in the Use & Care instructions not to, they will void the warranty.
    That statement on the use and care card about not using soap or putting them in a dishwasher or on a grill - makes them NOT responsible for mis use.
    I tell all my customers four things about stoneware. 1) Do not use soap unless you do it very quickly and rinse it immediately - never let it soak. 2) These are not made for direct heat either on a stove or grill. 3) NEVER put it in a dishwasher. 4) And if you do not want to follow these instructions, do not purchase stoneware. Stones are wonderful if treated right. If they are not, they will bite you back.
     
  17. baychef

    baychef Silver Member

    I avoid arguing with customers at all costs. I had one explain how by leaving one in the oven (with nothing on it) while you bake other foods, it will make sure your oven heats evenly. She went on for about five minutes. I simply said, that her explaination makes perfect sense, but keep in mind that PC recommends that you cover most of the surface of the stone with food to ensure that there is no breakage. But she swore by it and I went along with it except for the brief explaination I gave.

    I also tell people that when I have cooked something like chicken or turkey and there it makes the stone greasy, I sprinkle baking soda on the stone with a little water. This is safe and gives it just enough abrasiveness to remove debris. At the same time, it soaks up the grease. My baking soda is in a flour sugar shaker by the sink. (cross sell!!)
     
  18. c00p

    c00p Gold Member

    Well, I guess I'm odd "woman" out on this one, because I say YES. I've done it. I had 2 of my rectangle stones that I had been using for my cookies and was using Pam (bad, bad, awful stuff for stones) and it made that nasty sticky residue. I tried a baking soda paste, let it soak, scrubbed - everything. Nothing would remove it. So, I put it into the dishwasher without soap and they both came out beautifully. That's been over 2 years ago and they are just as wonderful as ever!!! No cracks, no problems whatsoever. I tell all of my customers to not use Pam because it's "lethal" to stoneware and I also tell them that if they have, that they should run it through the dishwasher just like I did.
     
  19. Hey John. Good to see your post.
     
  20. ivykeep

    ivykeep Gold Member

    I've tried and do -- but it doesn't help -- the heat of the water through the gloves causes my hand to sweat inside the gloves (I've used flocked lined and cotton gloves inside of rubberized gloves) and they still break out. It's been a problem since I was a child.

    I also use a waterless hand cleaner (NOT alcohol based) whenever possible to wash my hands.

    The really sad thing for me is that I passed the condition on to my daughter. As I've aged the condition is generally just a hand issue, but my 20 month old daughter as chapped and cracked patches all over her torso and the backs of her knees.

    In any event, I've never had problems with the the dishwasher... and if/when I do, I will consider that I've gotten my money's worth out of the stoneware, which would otherwise be useless to me -- and then probably use the china setting on my dishwasher for future pieces. (I always forget to hit the china setting, but the same reason that stoneware shouldn't go in the dishwasher is the same reason that china shouldn't go in the dishwasher, but mine always does to).
     
  21. ivykeep

    ivykeep Gold Member

    I have TWO of our brushes sitting by my sink -- as well as a sponge brush that dispenses soap into the sponge by the handle. I do use them to wash out cookware... and I do use them on the stoneware (not the one with soap), especially at shows, but I don't find that I can get the proper leverage on the stone to remove all the debris -- the scraping side isn't as "sharp" as the hand scrapers and with the handle I can't always get the correct angle.

    I've tried everything (I'm almost 40 years old and have had this skin condition since I was a baby) -- and at this point in my life, there are some things not worth stressing over.

    I put my stoneware in the dishwasher long before anyone ever told me I couldn't (I was a bad customer and didn't read the use and care) and my consultant had only mentioned no soap, but said she put hers in the dishwasher. Since I've successfully done it for so long, I'm not going to change what has worked for me -- no matter what the dire warnings are. (And while i don't put my PC cookware in the dishwasher -- I do put my circulon pans in the dishwasher and I've had them since 2000 and have never had a problem with them, and I found the book that came with them and they are dishwasher safe, even though "non-stick" cookware isn't supposed to be *shrug*)

    I have a beautiful brown small round stone that I purchased at the very first show I ever attended, way back in 1999 and it has been through the dishwasher hundreds of times.

    I acknowledge that in some cases there might be a problem with a dishwasher, so not everyone should use it, but for SOME people it is worth the risks to the stoneware.

    I do like how they cook my good, but the hand cleaning isn't worth it to me.

    I have an aunt who bought a stoneware pie plate at the first show I hosted (in 2000) and she uses it to make one dish only (a really yummy brie dish with a round of brie in the center, brown suger, a tablespoon of whiskey and slivered almonds on top and a loaf of french bread dough wrapped around the brei and then baked until the bread is done). She has never handwashed anything in her home since I've ever known. She's been very quiet at shows when I/my old consultants talk about no soap on stoneware. She privately told me she runs her pie plate through the regular dishwasher and because of what she cooks in it, she has never had a soap residue issue or soapy taste. But she's a lady enough not to contradict the consultant at the show. In my experience my shaped stoneware doesn't brown the same way the flat stones do and soap doesn't have the same effect on the stone bowls and pans that it does on a flat stone.

    Customers are going to use their products however they want... and I'd never tell someone not to buy a product if they can't live by the restrictions, but I can and do tell them that the product may not last as long if they don't.

    Things like soap and dishwashers *MIGHT* cause problems with a stone, but it is not a always thing... yes, you should be cautious and be aware of the risks, but if you make an informed decision and still act contrary to advice because it works best for you, you aren't going to wind up in cooking hell :angel:

    It's like my friend who is pregnant and takes an asprin every day (even though most pregnant women are told to avoid asprin at all costs)... she has a clotting disorder and if she doesn't take a daily asprin her child is likely to die of a blood clot in the umbilical cord (she's already lost two pregnancies to this before she was diagnosed. It goes against recommendations, but she has to do what's best for her,m even if it isn't the normal advice.
     
  22. wadesgirl

    wadesgirl Gold Member

    I wish more customer's were like your aunt! Some people just need to learn a little bit of tact when they try to talk over what I'm trying to tell everyone else.

    I feel for you on the ezcema problems, my husband has it bad and gets terrible break outs. I feel for our future children, I have terribly oily skin, he has terribly dry skin. I figure they will probably come out half and half!
     
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